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Snarky commentary on the breeding of a poor quality woman, her silly and abusive teaching techniques and pretty much anything else that annoys me about her! Your UNCENSORED place to vent about this woman being in the horse world!

Fugly Wench of the Day

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This is a philosophical blog about.....oh, screw it!!! This blog is dedicated to calling Cathy, the FHotD writer, out on her bull sh*t!

Thursday, April 2, 2009

Blackmarket Horse Slaughter

Here is what happens when slaughter houses are banned in the US but there is still a demand for horse products and meat. It creates a black market where I'm sure even the anti slaughter folks would be screaming that slaughter plants are even more humane than what is being done down in Florida. Here is the news cast. Be careful as a couple of the videos are graphic.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/weird/From-Race-Horse-To-Main-Course.html

For those in the Florida and surrounding areas, I would be locking those barn doors, stall doors, and paddock gates because these black market poachers DO NOT care if Fluffy is your backyard pasture ornament. If there is a chance they can make money off his meat, he will be killed, stripped of his meat and left on the side of the road for dead. These poachers will hit anything from fancy barns to the run down sheds- if it has 4 hooves and says "neigh" there is a chance for these poachers to spot your prize pony and see dollar signs.

As with anything illegal, the higher the risk, the higher the price. Horse meat is bringing $20/ per lb which is nearly if not MORE than double what cattle is bringing per pound in many parts of the country.

I'm not surprised in the least to see this going on, I half expected it. When you have a market for it then you will have people taking the risk to fill that demand. Do not expect to see this ONLY in Florida. This will happen in other states. If you board your horse go over safety procedures with your barn owner/manager. Talk about installing video cameras around the barn and also motion detectors that have an alarm that can be set after hours. These things might be a bit pricey but it's much better to be safe than sorry. If you have your horses on your land, it might be a good idea to talk with your neighbors and establish a neighborhood watch. Check your fences each day and padlock your gates that surround your property. But do not think for one second that these poachers won't cut wire to gain entry to your pasture. Make sure your property has adequate light source. These poachers are more comfortable at night and a well lighted barn or pasture might make them think twice.
To make it harder for these poachers to catch and get away with your horses remove all halters from sight. Leave them locked in your tack room or put away in your vehicle. Never leave a halter on your horses and if you are able, bring your horses into a smaller paddock for the night. Make sure your neighbors/barn owner know who you are and what your horses look like. Make sure your neighbors/Barn owner have your phone numbers, vehicle and trailer description. Tell them that under no circumstance is another trailer to be on your property and to call if they ever spot a trailer entering the property that should not be there or is not yours. Just like you would do for your kids, fill out emergency contacts and give them to your barn owner/neighbor. Always remember to keep open communication with neighbors/barn owners/other boarders.

Expect to see more and more of these black market poachers. Keep your animals safe and don't be afraid to call police if you see someone suspicious hanging around your barn or neighborhood. Your horses safety is your responsibility and these poachers just don't care if they are young, old, mare, stallion, accomplished performers, or trail horses.



**************
For those interested in helping those animals saved or just want to read more into their story, here is the SPCA website that talks further about the horses stolen, recovered, and sadly those that did not get such a happy ending. I have also included the link to the youtube video that speaks further into this story.

http://www.spca-sofla.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pLApxH5le4

126 comments:

Anonymous said...

Okay...I was SOOOOOOOOO not ready to see that slideshow. Especially when they showed that one horse Comanche. It looks like he was slaughtered right in his stall!!!! How frickin sick is that?????
I feel so bad for that lady in the video whos horse was slaughtered and left by the side of the road. Soem sick F#$% these poachers must be.

Trainer X said...

Good God this is getting so scary.... These people have no qualms about stealing and butchering our animals... ugh...

AmericanMadeMorgans said...

WoW! That is so sad.... What a awful thing to have to deal with on top of everything else going on. I am lost for words. Those poor people..... Very sad!

AmericanMadeMorgans said...

I couldn't even watch..... I would just ball my eyes out.

casstheamazinghorse said...

I don't like horse slaughter but I don't disagree with it either. I eat too much bacon and steak to do that.

Even so, I am on the fence about what exactly should be done about it. Yes slaughter houses were banned in America - but that doesn't keep American horses from getting killed. They just get sold to a "loving Canadian family". Kind of like what would happen if they banned guns/drugs/anything - the only people who are going to follow your law are the lawful people - if somebody really wants to go rob that bank and have a gun, then they are going to take a gun because they are already avoiding the law. And the banker is going to be the one left defenseless because he is a law abiding fellow and doesn't have a weapon.

Kind of a tangent there, but I feel that it does relate to horse slaughter in the fact that if somebody really wants to do something, they are going to do it regardless of what the law says.

I think that the best way to go about this problem would be to make slaughter legal - but with restrictions on exactly who gets slaughtered - and make it easy to give the horse's a humane death. I am guessing you can't euthanize a horse intended for food, but you can hire a good marksman who will make sure that the horse's don't suffer.

The conditions of the slaughter houses are bad and so is the transportation - those are also things that would need to change. And, kind of like with a horse, to get what you want you are going to have to make the right way easier than the wrong way.

What I don't get is, why do they need to kill American horses to serve up in France? I am sure there are plenty of unwanted horses in France as well as here.

PS..This comment probably makes no sense. I haven't really slept for about two days!

casstheamazinghorse said...

Oh, and to clarify, I hate the idea of horse slaughter because I am a horse person - I could not imagine ever, ever eating my horse. I have no problems eating pigs and cows, but somebody who grew up with their best friend Bessie or Babe out in the barn might think that eating beef and pork is just as incomprehensible as we think eating horses is.

CinammonSwirl said...

Oh gods, I couldn't imagine finding that scene. I just couldn't.

Horse slaughter needed a massive revamp years ago, and banning was not one of them. It was also exploited by people who bred and had no business to do so, so they were in it for a quick buck.

It's hard to draw the line when it comes to horses being livestock or large pets. Unlike a lot of livestock, they shown for longer periods of time and find use in careers or other various things. Look in the past, cattle wranglers needed their horses, and I bet they didn't eat one unless they absolutely had to. I think that hesitation and thought of slaughtering stems from the fact that they have been an essential and useful part of people for so many years. People forget that although they weren't pets in the beginning, they weren't what I'd classify as true livestock, either.

What those people did to those horses is not right, though. I don't know what I'd do if I found either of my horses like that if I woke up one morning. It just makes me sick and so worried. I will definitely giving my boys a hug when I get home this weekend.

MommaSheesh said...

cattle go for nowhere near $40 a pound -- if horsemeat is selling for $20 a pound is is twice what cattle sell for not half

The Wenchster said...

Thanks Mommaseesh. I meant DOUBLE instead of HALf. Sorry, was in the middle of reading on cooks.com and kept seeing 1/2 on different recipes. The word half was fresh on my mind. My apologies and the correction is made.

Anonymous said...

These poachers are darn lucky they weren't in this country doing this 100 years ago. A century ago, horse thieves were hanged.

OldMorgans said...

I do not think that opening new slaughter houses will stop what is happening in Florida. This, from all I have read, is being done by a certain population segment that is then selling the meat locally, sometimes passing it off as something other then horsemeat. On a Miami Animal Cops, filmed a few years ago, when the slaughter houses in our country were still open, there was a incident of this happening. The AC officer said that the meat was usually sold in roadside bar-b-que stands, and not announced as being horsemeat.
Otherwise, I agree with your safety precautions.

GoLightly said...

Wow, no words.
everybody said it.
The price of food...

Great Post!

Padraigin_WA said...

Saw the slideshow- just horrible. I cannot imagine what those souls went through. And their owners who loved them and looked forward to their good morning snuffles and nickers. The deceased Wings on the Track got to me. No more flying for him. Sad, sad.

But the look in the eyes of those saved: priceless. I wouldn't mind that bay on the far right.

Old Morgans, I saw that Animal Cops Miami program on AP, too, I believe they killed the horses with a chainsaw.

Dena said...

I am glad you took the hard road Wench.
I am glad that there are people like you who are willing to provide real information. Even if, it is the stuff of nightmares.
Thank You...

I mean that sincerely

My captcha is fackt

Anonymous said...

This is horrible, but has absolutely nothing to do with the US slaughterhouses closing.

Horsemeat was never sold in the US, and those who want it have always had to get it on the "black market".

This crap happened when the slaughterhouses were operating, and will continue even if they re-open.

The Wenchster said...

This is horrible, but has absolutely nothing to do with the US slaughterhouses closing.

Horsemeat was never sold in the US, and those who want it have always had to get it on the "black market".

This crap happened when the slaughterhouses were operating, and will continue even if they re-open.

__________________________


I'm trying to dig back the websites that I read earlier that stated the black market slaughter HAS increased 64% since the closing of the US slaughter houses. Most of the activity has taken place in Florida due to the huge demand of horse meat in Cuba and Caribbean where it can be easily shipped with very little inspection.
I know this went on before the closing of slaughter plants but it was never as large scale as this where whole herds are being stolen and barns are being emptied. These black market poachers are also becoming more sloppy and rushed in their work and taking bigger risks such as slaughtering the horse on owner property or taking the horse from the pasture just down the road and killing and taking the meat, leaving the carcass on sides of roads.

I can't imagine the horror those horse owners had to face when they wake up to find their horse maimed and crudely butchered. I really feel for them.

The Wenchster said...

Also wanted to add that I put some additional information up on this blog post at the bottom for those who may want to read more about this story or watch some of the news cast. I will warn that the news cast from youtube does have some pretty graphic parts.

Anonymous said...

Totally OT, but did you guys see that link someone posted in today's comments on the fugly blog?Cathy has uploaded some nasty pics of female genitals on her Geocities site. One of the commenters linked to it and asked Fugs if it was her. Don't go there if you haves a weak stomach!

Anonymous said...

Just watched the video and am just appalled at the monsters who are doing this! And they aren't even utilizing the entire carcasses, either, it looks like they're just cutting out prime pieces and that's it. I'm not saying that to support slaughter, I think horse slaughter is a very evil thing in itself, but this goes to show that this whole mess is not necessary, it's just more greed and our horses suffer because of money.

Roxmysox said...

God, that's foul, but, as you said, not totally surprising. If these foreigners so miss the ways of home then maybe they should go back there.
How long before people start turning up dead from eating contaminated horsemeat ? or random poachers gutted at the side of the road because they picked the wrong barn to harvest( not that I'm saying that either scenario would be a good thing....)

GoLightly said...

I know, I know, I shouldn't have.

To Fugs..
"GoLightly - believe it or not, I can agree with an organization on some issues and disagree with them on others. I feel the same way about my political party. No one is right 100% of the time - not HSUS, not the Republicans, not the Democrats, not the U.N., not the Pope, and so on..."

Except you, right?
That isn't a Tom Thumb bit, it's backwards, and the people, while ignorant, are actually smiling/having fun. Shame on them for knowing nothing. AND having fun. Good grief, how stupid of them. Painful, really.

And why on earth would you deign to answer me, the painfully stupid?
Unbelievable.
"cat67=FHoTD.
(Quote:
Go litely has forgotten more than you and your Dopia friends will ever know.)
Drugs will do that!"

That's a little quote from you, dear fugs, to SarcastaBitch on Dopia, where everyone who knows EVERYthing can trash those who don't. How sweet.
SB, An expert, because of her ties to your great, all knowing power. BULLshite.
Said SB bought a weanling, then bought an unbroke dangerously green 12 year old mare. All with NO riding/training experience, by her own admission.

Way to go fugs, that is the way to start. I'm sure all of your great, sneering Dopia knowledge did her a world of good.
A little bird tells me, SB's mare slipped twins, so she's bred back again.
Yipppeeee. Way to support those BYB's, as long as they support you.

There is a word for people that trash others, and then don't hold up the same standards for themselves.
TwoFaced, I believe. Look it up.

And no, never did get any proof that Chamapgne 'Til Dawn was indeed a real entity. A money maker, yes. For you. Maybe La Mexicana too. PonyUpRescue.com?
Big bucks, eh, sheeple?
I ponied up. You didn't.

Where did your standards GO?
Hellinahandbasket, I guess.

Same with the AQHA, and the VLC, and etc.etc.

You've gathered an army of beginner know-it-alls, who are too busy laughing at beginners to give said beginners any chance of asking an honest question.

The horses suffer for it, you idiot.

I'll ask AGAIN.
Why is it funny to watch a beginner trying to learn to ride/train/tack-up? Oh, right, you say so.
Frickin' hilarious.

Why is it funny for others to attempt to train their own horses, when you admit you can't do it yourself?

Why is the AQHA still breeding HYPP? Why are their WP heads so low? Why does the VLC have stifle problems? Posty legs, anyone?

Back to your regularly scheduled sneering.

Bitzy Ditch out.

Be_Smart_Breed_Less said...

Golightly

I understand that you don't like Cathy and you think she bilked people out of money on a horse that didn't really exist.

By posting that way are you attempting to enlighten people about Cathy? IMHO it is having the opposite effect. Maybe try leaving the sarcasm out of the post. That way you don't come across as having an axe to grind but someone who is bringing up valid issues that aren't being addressed.

IMO there is a double standard on FUGLY as well as over here.

I have seen many cringe worthy applications of tack. I find I have more luck by using, the honey versus vinegar routine. Do people always listen? Nope. But I am willing to be shot down when a child is involved, I have seen some horrible wrecks in my day due to tack not properly fitted.

Do I consider myself a FUGLY MINION/SHEEPLE. No, I differ on many opinions. 1. Being Slaughter
2. I believe in putting a horse down sooner rather than later, I will use the Champ example here, The x-rays said it all.
3. I prefer to help horses/people with out having to take it public to get my back patted.
4. I don't believe you are going to change a persons mind by dragging them thru the mud in public and harrassing them enmass

Be_Smart_Breed_Less said...

Wench, sorry for the off topic post.

Anonymous said...

GL
I thought that was one of those machine press $1 curbs myself.
And laughed my butt off at her statements.
Sheeples. Pretty apt.
The porn pics directly off her advertize her button?
Really say so much about her.
Don't worry the calvary is coming to check alot of organizations books. Big business does not just include banks.
To the horses.

Anonymous said...

GoLightly donated to the TB stallion Chamagne Til Dawn's care. I think she deserves to be shown the paperwork, and Fugly just hasn't come forth with the details. She has yet to tell us what the total donations amounted to, and what she has done with any leftover amounts. What has it gone towards? I think GL is simply frustrated.
Do you see how Fugly is always criticizing, and asking her readers to share their stories, while she keeps her own cards breasted? I think this has also gotten veryyyy, veryyy old.


LOL, the word verification for my post happens to be 'rabies'!

anon pf

Anonymous said...

Can someone please explain to me how this relates to legalizing horse slaughter? This is its own problem and involves a specific ethnic group. There will be a black market surrounding this no matter what, from what I can tell.

Anonymous said...

Sorry - I am the 10:09 anon - stupidly didn't read through all the comments first and so didn't see Wenchster's previous explanation. It does make sense.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

For me the biggest difference between here and fugly is the comfort level of being able to disagree with what is posted or what other people say.

So on that note...
I see no correlation between U.S. equine slaughter and black market slaughter. NONE of the horse meat that the slaughter plants produced was ever marketed in the U.S.
So I completely disagree with the thought that because the U.S. slaughter plants are closed there are higher incidences of people's horses being killed for personal consumption in the U.S.

One thing that did pop into my mind though, could the rising number of stolen and butchered horses have anything to do with the economy? As in there are people who are hungry and the closest thing to meat that they see available to them are horses?

I always shake my head at people on fugly who say they would "starve to death" before they would eat horse meat. All I gotta say is-obviously you have never been hungry.

Now, having grown up on an Indian Reservation, I learned at an early age that when the cute little puppies disappeared one by one from the neighbor's yard, where they went. It's called "puppy stew". It's not all that common anymore-you know, with food stamps and commodaties being handed out. Most of the traditionals are long gone too. But the truth be told, I'd much rather eat horse than dog or cat. Not so much because of the stigma attached to "pets", but because I think the meat would be better. All I can say, is I HOPE I never have to test the theory.

I'm not condoning what these people are doing. I just wonder why they are resorting to stealing and butchering horses when they could buy, if they had the extra $20 or $30 to go to an auction and buy horses to butcher? Something is going on and it has nothing to do with the U.S. slaughter issue.

Anonymous said...

Something is going on and it has nothing to do with the U.S. slaughter issue.

Methinks too many illegal immigrants coming over here and not respecting the culture of those whom they invade.

Caela said...

Holy crap. I don't have the guts to click your links.

Anonymous said...

BEC - do you think legal slaughtering found some horse meat inadvertently getting into the hands of these people? I just wonder why the increase since plants were shut down, unless it (the increase)would've happened anyway. Very true about getting horses at auction - guess there is cost, no matter how small, involved - and peoples well cared for horses are well fed for more and better meat :-(

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Anon-I'm not fluent in all the aspects of how the equine slaughter process worked but the way that I understood it is that when they re-opened the plants in the 80's it was under the assumption that the USDA inspectors were there to inspect the meat and that the meat was only approved for export. What did they do with the meat that was not approved? I don't know. What cdo they do with cattle meat that is not approved?
Somehow, I(personally) find it hard to believe that somehow meat from the kill plants in Illinois and Texas(approved or not) made it's way to Florida with any or enough regularity to be considered consistent, much less without anyone finding out about it and freaking out. The USDA is pretty rigid about knowing where meat ends up.

You will have to take this information for what it is, my slightly vague understanding of how the USDA approves meat for human consumption.

The USDA inspectors is actually how they finally managed to bring the slaughter industry to it's knees. While the USDA allowed USDA inspectors to inspect horse meat for export, they never actually repealed or changed the regulation that prohibited USDA inspectors from approving horse meat, since equine slaughter was technically a private entity. Petitions demanding that the USDA remove its inspectors were successful. That is how the ball got rolling to get the plants shut down.

Sorry for the vague history, but kind of trying to understand how things worked at the plants, helps me try to explain why I don't think that the equine slaughter plants open or closed have anything to do with what is going on in Florida.

The only time I have ever heard of people in the states eating horsemeat is when the animal was privately butchered and processed.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Oh and to the other Anon(who quoted me)...I don't think stealing is well-thought of in any culture. There are plenty of places in the world that are more than willing to put a person to death for stealing someone else's livestock. But desperate people do desperate things.

My mom was just telling us a story about her dad in the Depression era. Back then, nearly everyone had chickens. Chickens were actually pretty valuable. They were easy to keep and took up little space. They provided meat and eggs to eat or sell. Sometimes that was the only income some families had. One night my grandpa heard someone stealing some of his chickens and chased them down in his Model A. They dropped the chickens, so my grandpa got his birds back, but a rock had flipped up and put a hole in the radiator of his car. He said better that than loose his birds.
For a long time after the Depression days, it was highly insulting to call anyone a chicken thief. Doing so implied that someone was willing to steal the food out of your mouth and/or potential income. It was also perfectly acceptable to shoot anyone you did catch trying to steal your chickens. Most everyone kept rocksalt loaded in their shotguns rather than real shells.

Anonymous said...

I don't really comment on this blog. But am a big fan of this blog.

I think BEC said it might be the economy causing this slaughter because of the number of poorer, hungry people increasing.

I don't think that's the cause. Especially if this is going for $20-30 a pound. Isolated incidences might seem like a hungry family stealing/butchering a horse, but these wide-spread incidences make it seem like a blackmarket "ring."

If people are doing that poorly they will be eating rice and beans. Meat (legal or not) is expensive and, at least in my experience and MHO, it's much cheaper to cut out meat. Especially since I doubt people in poor economic condition don't know how to butcher an animal properly and I would HATE to break into the abdominal cavity of a horse (not to gross anyone out).

Anon - Girlwithoutahorse

Anonymous said...

BEC - I am previous anon 1:04 (I really need to start signing in). Thanks for your input and thoughts. Excellent points. As always.

GirlWithoutAHorse said...

Re-reading my comment. I did not mean to imply that people should become vegetarian to save money. You should eat what you want to eat. I meant to imply if people are really struggling money-wise, a way to save money is to lower meat consumption (not necessarily remove it, but if you want, go ahead).

Didn't want to sound like vegetarianism is the only way to be frugal. Just that people who have little money, wouldn't spend it wisely by spending it on $20 per pound meat.

Anon - girlwithoutahorse

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Oh, I didn't take your point about the "retail" value of the blackmarket horsemeat to mean that people should become vegetarians Girlwithoutahorse. I fully understand the rice and beans concept.;)

Actually, you have a very good point. I did not read or watch the links Wench provided until you stated that is what they say this horsemeat is going for. If the cost to purchase horsemeat really is that high, you are absolutely correct.

You know, after watching that newsclip, it makes people wonder even more what the heck is causing this phenomina. Not to be gross or anything, but the paint horse that was butchered in his stall? All that looked like was removed was his skin. I'm sorry, but skinning any large animal takes time and is exceedingly difficult to do with the animal on the ground. And at night?

Did anyone else notice the comment about the horses possibly being stolen and slaughtered to feed fighting dogs?

I'll be the first to admit that I get a little frustrated watching newsclips that are frought with emotionalizm, same with news articles. I like facts. Pure and simple. But even I got a little choked up when that lady couldn't go back to the spot where they found her horse butchered.

Sorry for the commenting overload today-it's storming again-wind is howling and another blizzard headed our way tomorrow. It is spring right? Agghhh-now I am just rambling.:(

Darcy Jayne said...

BEC wondered about what happens to beef that doesn't pass USDA inspection. I can tell you where most of it ends up: in pet food.

Cattle that are deemed unfit for human consumption, meat that's contaminated (sometimes deliberately to mark it as unfit for people) along with other things that you probably wouldn't knowingly feed your dogs/cats (such as euthanized animals - and those drugs don't get "processed" out) go into pet food.

Since pet food is largely OT here, I'll leave it at that.

Darcy Jayne said...

The idea that the horses are being slaughtered to feed fighting dogs doesn't make sense to me. If that were the case, the thieves would take just about everything, not just the easily salable cuts of meat.

MyhorsewearsPrada said...

Umm,I do believe that horse meat was briefly sold in the US for human consumption. I remember the food section of the Post talking about it. This would have been in the early 1970's. I remember "All in the Family" had a segment when the Gloria brought home horse steaks. At that time the US had wildly rising cost of meat. Horse was considered an economical change. It didn't catch on.

Horse rustling, about the same time folks were being encourage to try horse meat, there was an upswing in horse rustling. It was not to feed people... Mustangs were given their first protections and the slaughter houses could no longer get cheap horses for dog food and horse products like leather etc (anyone else remember glue factory jokes?). It there is a demand someone will fill it. Voila the horse rustlers snitching hunters, show horses, cow horses etc. Much easier to get than mustangs for sure. They would even load quickly and quietly.

A question, it seems to me that over time people leave the Fugly blog. I haven't done a scientific investigation, but look at the names of the posters six months ago, some, but not many, are the same. Is this just a trend with blogs that people read you for 3 to 5 months then stop and go to the next new thang?

MyhorsewearsPrada said...

Brown Eyed Cowgirl,
Very few people eat true carnivores.(cats in this case) They taste bad. It's one of those xenophobic slurs that show how awful those people over there are.
When in times of famine or extreme hardship (war for instance) people will eat just about anything. During the siege of Drogheda people ate rats and liked them too.

Dena said...

MyHorseWearsPrada
You make an excellent point about stealing a certain type of horse because they are well trained and easy to load.

BEC I loved what you wrote about the chickens.
So true...

In general;
The thing I am wondering too is is this meat is for poor people why wouldn't they buy cheap hamburger at $2-$3 dollars per pound?

I could believe that they are harvesting for themselves to eat.
There was another comment about roadside barbeque.

But who would be the group that the Black Market is catering to at exorbitant prices?

It is sad and frightening. I was just sick watching those videos.

MyhorsewearsPrada said...

I didn't watch the videos because I very squeamish, but could the animals have been SanterĂ­a sacrifices? Not to slam Santerians, but there are lots of Santerians in Florida, and Santerians do practice animal sacrifice, including 4 legged animal sacrifice. (this was a bone of contention in Texas)
Some Santerian may have gotten his head all bent out of shape and decided that a BIG sacrifice would be needed. Panicked people do stupid things.

CinammonSwirl said...

"Blogger MyhorsewearsPrada said...

I didn't watch the videos because I very squeamish, but could the animals have been SanterĂ­a sacrifices? Not to slam Santerians, but there are lots of Santerians in Florida, and Santerians do practice animal sacrifice, including 4 legged animal sacrifice. (this was a bone of contention in Texas)
Some Santerian may have gotten his head all bent out of shape and decided that a BIG sacrifice would be needed. Panicked people do stupid things."

I don't know if you looked at the pictures, but I've never heard of animal sacrifices skinning the animal and taking the meat off the carcass. *shudders*

This topic doesn't rest well with me at all.

horspoor said...

I didn't click on the links. Saw the warning...and thought no way, can't hang.

I'm pretty horrified by the written word on this deal let alone pictures. How can you possibly keep a horse truly secure? I put mine out to pasture. Take them to a public stable that isn't locked. Pretty scary. And all of mine are pretty round, except for Top, and he's getting rounder by the day.

Janie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Janie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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MyhorsewearsPrada said...

CinammonSwirl, no I didn't see the videos, but you are right Santeria don't cut steaks off their sacrifices. So scratch that idea.
I guess I'm back to a bunch of nut cases.
Religious fervor is more palatable to me then just random nuts. I don't know why. I guess because it gives an explanation and the illusion of control.

The Wenchster said...

Janie I beg to differ as other people including myself here have stated that black market horse slaughter has been going on for years. The reason why most have not heard the hype is because it has not been as large scale as what it has been.
I know not everything in the news is true which is why I posted several different news sources. They all can't be liars, especially when they have the photos, videos, owner stories, evidence, and SPCA stories to back it up. I'm not sure very many people will believe your "hype" theory as I'm sure most of these horse owners would not go out and tie their horse to a tree only to cruely and painfully slaughter him for a few extra bucks. Also, I'm sure that many of those FREE horses did end up in one of the black market slaughter houses.

And you are also wrong on another point. According to Bill H.R. 503 it clearly states(and I will quote and inclue several links)...

To amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes.

LINKS-
http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/567

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-503

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/109_HR_503.html

I'm hoping that will suffice.

That being said, there are a few states that it is legal to raise and slaughter your own horse for your OWN consumption. In those states though you can face criminal charges if you are caught selling it.


I don't care about the extra emotional baggage this story came with, whats most important to me is that people are aware this is going on so they are able to better protect themselves and their horses.

The Wenchster said...

BEC said...
You know, after watching that newsclip, it makes people wonder even more what the heck is causing this phenomina. Not to be gross or anything, but the paint horse that was butchered in his stall? All that looked like was removed was his skin. I'm sorry, but skinning any large animal takes time and is exceedingly difficult to do with the animal on the ground. And at night?


That's what I thought about too. But you have to factor in death bloat and also Floridas humidity. Most of those horses that could be identified and they had pictures of were already bloated by the time they were found in the morning, making it appear more was left on the horse than there actually was.
I was trying to think of why a lot of these horses were being stripped of their hide, but after reading through a bunch of the news clips it seems like most of the horses that are stripped of their hide are colorful paint horses that are either bay, sorrel, or black. I wonder if this is because these hides can sell easy like a cow hide?

bhm said...

Janie,
What did you get flamed about?

Fugs suggested a ride off between her and GL and I agreed with fugs. I got flamed for that. Of course, I was a being humorous about fugs having a ride off against the others she has trashed like Dena. Just being humorous nothing serious. I still think Dena would wipe the floor with her.

Dena said...

I am going OT for a second/minute.

bhm
That is the one thing I was thinking about yesterday.
I have been flamed for a lot of things.
But never my training or riding ability.

Weird when you think they did not need facts or proofs for so many other rants.

Maybe they get that I wouldn't know what I know if I didn't do what I do.

Or maybe they have or think they might have some tough horsie in the future and might actually need me.lol

On Topic Again
I am with you MHWP I could somehow accept it easier if I thought it was some type of Santarian/Religious thing.

The location is right. Just not the result.

Again on second thought. Santarian practioners get a lot of the organs for their rituals from animals butchered in specific ways.
I think "Live" is one.

And I also agree with the spotted hide and cow theory.
The funny thing is, the people who work with the hides should be able to tell right off by the dimensions of the girth and length of the hide.

And horrible as it is there are those ponyhide shoes and purses.

It is one of those situations that has a person saying to themselves, "What the hell is it. And where the hell is this coming from. Why the hell would someone do this. And how the hell do I protect myself from it."?JMO

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bhm said...

Janie,
That's just silly. Well at least you weren't called a crack head like ND was called. That's just beyond ridiculous.

One of things that I don't like about FHOTD is, despite the numerous posters that say that they often disagree with fugs, you are never allowed to disagree with her without being flamed. I do find it better here because you can disagree all you want and it doesn't get out of hand. Go ahead, disagree with me all you want.

Janie said...
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Dena said...

Janie,
I am so sorry. I didn't mean that it was on the advertise here.
I said that the poster eventually ended there. The geocities thing.
It wasn't my intent to draw anyones fire to you:) I was very glad that you showed up though. Literally in the nick of time. So, to speak.
Otherwise you might have suffered the fate of so many other posters and simply been lost in the vast pool of my MP.lol
Multiple Personalities or Posting I.Ds. Depends on the day.

bhm
I was angry that ND took that hit.
And I swear Serendipity has no recall when it comes to what she has previously posted.
So, consider the source? Definitely applies.

It is icky weather and I can't ride today.
Very sad.:(

Anonymous said...

Why would they need to poach when it is even easier than it ever was to get a free or super cheap horse??? This post doesn't make any sense to me. Bad stuff happens, but I don't think the closing of the slaughter houses has anything to do with stealing or poaching.

Anonymous said...

OT, but...

Thanks Wench for providing a venue for those with dissenting views that, no matter how well thought out, sensible, or intelligent, would be met with derision on the fhotd blog.

I have been reading that blog for almost 2 years and my opinions of the blog have swung wildly during that time. Initially, I was intrigued at the opportunity to intelligently discuss conformation and breeding issues. But something always bothered me about fugly's approach and the comments that followed each blog entry. The comments about the horses being "pukes" and all the ewwww, yuck, vomit comments seemed so juvenile and instead of inspiring me to agree with their assessments, alienated me.

And for clarification, I can be just as juvenile as the next adult, but once you reach adulthood there is a time and a place for it. If your aim is pure entertainment then go for it. If your aim is education, then I would rethink that approach. Unless your audience is comprised of adolescents, that is.

As time went by, I started to see how ill-researched many of her topics were. Cavalier accusations thrown out without any attempt to verify the accuracy of her claims, coupled with contact info and inflammatory statements, and absolutely never returning to correct erroneous info, even when blatantly proven inaccurate. Not only very offensive, but these very actions only served to undermine her "authority" on any issues for those who were paying attention and not just looking for any excuse to jump on a bandwagon.

Ah, I feel better. I've been holding that in for a long time.


signed as anonymous because I can't remember my old username and password

Dena said...

Wenchster

I would greatly appreciate it if you also would feature a thread on all of the evidence with regard to the FHotD, Dream Chaser Ranch Rescue, and Shiloh Horse Rescue.
It would be tremendously beneficial to have this featured as many places as possible.

GoLightly said...

anon, 6:19 pm
On the forum that I first found
>>> (that) on, I read many threads saying that fugs was posting erroneous claims.
At first, I was going to post on that forum defending her, but I held back.
GAWD, I'm glad I did.

Hi Janie!!

(waves) I'm the one wearing depends, apparently.

I'm afraid I'm a very cynical person, when it comes to media coverage, too.
Take most all reports with a grain of salt, until a confirmation is run, by any other corroborating, reliable, knowledgeable source.
Agendas are a part of the media wheel.
All that said, I sure wonder what the heck the agenda would be, for a story like that.
Did anybody understand that?
if not, sorry.

I think I spelled grammar wrong over there>>>>>>>>>>>.
Shoot me, I must be on something..

Mostly Toronto air.

Janie said...
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Janie said...
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Anonymous said...

Anon 6:15,
- well said!

anon pf

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Janie-I think that it is currently sitting there, but if it is not passed prior to the session ending, it will die and have to be reintroduced. They are hoping that the session will have to be extended(forget the terminology for that) so that it can be pushed through.

I'm with you in believing that a lot of people are confused by what is legal or not. To be honest, I am not even sure what is legal or not anymore.

Is there still time to contact your government officials and tell them this is or is not a bill you want to see passed?

Oh boy, is Cathy in a snit over this news article or what? All this rescue drama is pathetic. Like there aren't enough horses that need help...they gotta raise hell with each other? Nicccceee!

Funny-they all make fun of people who post here, but obviously they are reading...or they wouldn't know that the heck we were saying riiggghhhttt? Those dummies so outed themselves on that one-hehehe.

SaddleSeater said...

I live in Florida and the area where this is occuring is where there are a lot of migrant farm workers, illegals, as well as many other culturally different "types" of people.

One man was just on the news for operating a hole in the wall butchering facility. His less than sanitary operation was located not far from where these horses have been taken from.

Remember Florida is a melting pot for many where horsemeat could have been part of their diet. They still have cock fights, dog fights and just don't respect animals as we do. They do sacrifice animals...mostly goats and chickens from what I've heard.

And it could very well be a Black Market operation where they take special orders and have a whole network going. One can't be so naive to think that somwhere within the USA "it" is not sold or consumed. :-((((

With all the warning labels on the medications used to treat horses saying "do not use on animals for human consumption", I wonder if anyone has ever gotten ill or better yet, died ....I certainly hope so!!

I wish these people would go back to their own countries as I do believe it is them doing this. Geesh.... they probably get more government assistance with Food Stamps and the many other amenities we provide for them. They kill and beat each other so what's a horse to them??

Janie said...
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BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Yea, you won't find me commenting over there. Wayyy too many self-important losers. Most of them are very obvious in their lack of knowledge too. The ones who might know a few things are so freaking obnoxious...well, you know how it is.

Yea, I'm not sure what's up with Dena. I'm sure as hell not going to get involved in anyone's personal agenda...over two stupid rescues that I wouldn't send any money too anyway? Yea, I'd rather watch the blizzard outside.;)

snowponies said...

Haven't had time to post a comment in awhile, but have been reading and enjoying the blog nonetheless.
Let me start by saying that this stealing and slaughtering side of the road is truly horrific and I just can't imagine how awful it would be to experience anything like this. Thanks Wench for making people aware of this and the importance of keeping one's horses safe and secure. I had read a brief article about the paint, Geronimo a few weeks back and was glad to be able to read the links you provided. However, after reading all of these, I have to say that I'm tending to agree with what Janie said. I'm not denying that this happened, I'm just wondering how widespread this is and how much of a recent increase there truly is. All of these articles seemed to be peppered with discrepancies and contradictions. And an article that I found in "The Horse.com"
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13877&src=VW
was equally inconsistent as far as numbers and frequency among many other things.
At the begining they say that there have been 8 cases since Sept. 2007 and granted, 8 is 8 too many. But then the director of the Fla. SPCA says that it is hapening at the rate of one a week, but doesn't say for how long and then says that she has personally seen "about 8." In 8 wks? In 2 yrs.? She doesn't say. And from all the articles, it seems to only be happening in Miami-Dade County. Let's hope they are caught and that it doesn't become more widespread and since knowledge is power, good to get the word out.
I do agree with BEC and others that it probably has little to do with the closure of the plants in TX and IL. "The Horse" article states that selling horsemeat or giving it away in Fla is illegal. If so, then that right there creates a reason for a "black market". And as someone else said, if there is a market for it, someone will fill it. Also, I do believe that the current economy could be a factor if they are truly seeing an increase in these incidents. If this is commanding a high price as a delicacy in the local market (again, the articles were very vague as to whether this was a local, ethnic market or an overseas market), there are enough unemployed, financially strapped and desperate people who might see this as a good way to earn some quick cash.
All in all however, I have to say that the articles seemed somewhat sensationalized. JMHO
And the racehorse article (both the news article and the Fla SPCA site) well..........., just didn't jive. Nice story and I'm glad he's safe and all. And yes, I'm sure he had lots to recover from. But his legs looked amazingly well for having suffered "a bad break to his front leg" that was also left untreated as he gave "pony rides". In the picture where he was first found and rescued (on SPCA site) he is standing on both fronts and resting a back leg.
Sorry Wench, I'm really not trying to shoot down your post, as I said before, knowledge is power and if spreading the word helps prevent even just one incident more happening, then I'm all for it. It's just that I'm a total skeptic by nature and question MOST EVERYTHING.

snowponies said...

And Janie is absolutely correct, there is no nationwide federal ban on the slaughter of horses in the US(yet). Thats why it is so important if you feel (as I do) that there is a place and a way for humane slaughter of horses in this country, that you contact your representatives and let them know how you feel. It is also not illegal to eat horsemeat (the USDA has a bulletin on that on their website, sorry I don't have the link handy), nor do I believe that it is illegal to sell horsemeat in (most of) the US, it's just that there are no longer any large federally licensed commercial plants anymore to obtain it from. Texas had an old law that made it illegal to sell horsemeat for human consumption and that is how the AR groups got the two plants there shut down. I had read that the law was put on the books back in the 40's and intended only to prevent horsemeat from being sold as beef, but was written vaguely enough to be used to shut the plants down. And, as Janie said, IL passed a law prohibiting the sale of horsemeat for human consumption, so as of right now it is only state by state, not nationwide. I'm not sure but have wondered if there are any small licensed slaughterhouses that can sell it domestically and have thus been able to stay under the AR radar. I saw a story on the news sometime in the past 6 mos. or so about some very upscale restaurant in some large city (can't remember where, NYmaybe?) that featured horsemeat as one of it's signature dishes and have to assume that they are buying it legally - maybe it is imported from Canada? or ughhh..... Mexico? I doubt that they would want to be advertising themselves with a news story if they were obtaining it from some blackmarket ring.

snowponies said...

SaddleSeater said......

With all the warning labels on the medications used to treat horses saying "do not use on animals for human consumption", I wonder if anyone has ever gotten ill or better yet, died ....I certainly hope so!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have frequently read and heard people make this type of statement (about the medications/wormers), usually as an argument against slaughter.
Cattle, pigs, lamb, poultry etc. are treated with many of these same medications and wormers. They are "supposed" to follow a withdrawal period though before shipping the animal. The labeling is just the law. For example, wormer packaged specifically for horses has not undergone testing on other types of livestock commonly used for food. However, the wormer labeled for cattle is the exact same chemical (and has been tested specifically on cattle). Actually, horses probably receive far less drugs than other types of livestock, especially with todays trend of herbal, homeopathic horsekeeping.

Dena said...

Wrong thread. But here is something to amuse.

HSUS has been handpicking rescues across the country to provide rescue horses for Pat Parelli's horsemanship clinics.
What do you suppose the chances are that Fug's didn't know this?
That was her at the Genesis Awards after all.
Do we really KNOW that she was there?
Personally if it helps the horses, which, I think it probably will, I say, GREAT!
Definitely strange bedfellows in this mix.

Dena said...

In reference to what my beef is?
Simple.
She reaches a very broad audience.
She presents incorrect information on a regular basis.
She has involved herself and by association her readership in issues of rescue.
And anyone who has ever read the posts there, here, or anywhere, should be able to recognize, that there are a number of people who follow her lead and treat her opinions as gospel.
Without bothering to research the truth or falsehood of them.
So people who may have supported a certain rescue that may not even be in their state based on her opinion stop donating. And make a mission of telling others to not give as well.
Anonymous people controlling the well being of any rescue based on unresearched presentations?
Scary. And potentially harmful to the animals in that rescue. And the people.
That is my beef.
I rarely use the term sheeples. But, there are instances where it does apply.
So perhaps, in the future, only in the interest of, say being respectful or courteous?
You could address your questions about my motives to me,
Instead of, asking someone else what I think. Or why I do what I do.
Because that is how this kind of crap starts.
K Janie?
I understand that you came here to present some dissenting information.
And some of it is valid. And some is just your opinion.
But if I had questions about it?
I would ask you.
Not another reader.

Dena said...

Oh and one other thing? You can quit with the innocent bystander I just got dragged into this any time now.

You are the one who went searching on Fugs.
And posted the link to the porn pictures from Cathy's geo cities.com file on her blog.
And I would not fall over dead were I to learn that you anonymously posted the info here either.

So if you are looking for a fight?
Please don't pick one with me when I am loaded for bear.

And the snide shots at Wench? You haven't been around long enough to call her Winchester.
Present your info see what she does with it.
Give her a chance to absorb it and see how she responds to it.
Before you start taking potshots at her.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Dena...Ummmm, part of the problem when people start getting self-righteous, is that is that they lose objectivity and clarity.

Wench has made it perfectly clear that anons attacking your personal life will be deleted, I don't think that means that no one is allowed to have opinions on your "behavior" either here or on fugly.

You very well may have an agenda, feel passionately about the current issue on fugly or just plain hate Cathy enough that you don't care how you come off to other people...but don't bring your attacks here.

In your huffiness you incorrectly misidentified the word that Janie used...she actually mispelled Wenchster...ie...Winchster. She did not call her "Winchester", which is apparently YOUR pet name for the author of this blog.

Janie said...
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Anonymous said...

Dena-

I am not what the malfunction with you is. I go back and forth between blogs, because, there are valid points on both. For the most part, FHoTD cruises along and it tends to be somewhat tame. And there are people there that really know what they are talking about. I have learned a lot.

And then you show up!

The general attitude there changes. Even JR was being civil to you, and I have to totally respect that. As soon as I saw him show up there and you show up there at the same time, I thought the fireworks would begin. He obviously have more patience then he lets on.

And then you show up here and start the same thing and argue with everyone here!

There are people here that know a lot as well, and while I try to learn from them, the topic always turns towards Dena and he grudge match with Cathy!

I do not get it!

Anonymous said...

Dena

Why are you always looking for a fight?

I think you are abusing this blog because you think Wenchster will always protect you.

Bexs said...

Janie said......
These are the people who are also responsible for leading most of America (Winchster included, apparently) into believing that horse slaughter is illegal when it is not. In fact, as I pointed out this article contains that blatent lie, so it's obvious that it is anti-slaughter with whom we are dealing.


Actually from what I understand horse slaughter for monetary gain is illegal. It is covered under Title 18 under their revision of the animal terrorism act which states that the slaughter of horses on US soil to be shipped to foreign nations is illegal and can result 5 years in prison. Title 18 only umbrellas the slaughter of horses in the US and does not cover the transport of live horses over borders which is why people are trying to get HR 503 passed because IT covers the shipping of horses across borders that are destined for slaughter for foreign consumption.
So in a way both Wench and Janie are correct.

The reason why the one slaughter house where those horses were recovered in the news story was not closed and the owners not arrested is because the police were unable to determine if they were slaughtering horses for their own domestic use or for monetary gain.

PS. For those that think Wench is just trying to build hype, I think she honestly just cares about the innocent horses and horse owners in this one. Wench has been vocal about her stand on horse slaughter so I don't see why she would try to build hype around a bill that will abolish slaughter completely. Just my two cents.

Janie said...
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bhm said...

Dena,
If you are going to disagree with Janie then please do so politely. It's very disruptive to the discussion to have emotionally charged attacks take over.

Janie said...
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Dena said...

Yep, I was pissed when I posted that.
Irritates the hell out of me when anyone asks someone else when they could ask the person.
It is my opinion and I am entitled to it.
Just as the rest of you are entitled to yours.

And I am sure if other people were posting asking other people about you without ever asking you, it wouldn't bother any of you a bit.

And what I post here and why is a far cry from why I am deliberately inciteful there.

Janie said...
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GoLightly said...

BeSmartBreedless.
Agreed. My head pounds with migraines, every few weeks. My temper flares. Thanks for your comment.
It was wrong of me to come off sounding like an incoherent troll.
Incomprehensible, I'm used to:)

Hey, Bexs!
(Waves)
Say hi to that little fan of my stallion Butch, will ya? He'd wave, but his wheels kinda limit his freedom of movement.

And yes, please, more information, as always, is much appreciated.

Janie, thanks. I'm northwest of Toronto. So I only breathe the stench, when I'm at work..

Dena said...

Get over it works for me.
OT
Minnesota Hooved Animal Rescue and their trainers challenge are both really well run.

I completely admire the way their Director has addressed the unwanted horse issue, education, fundraising, and awareness.

This year they made one of the requirements for attending the challenge as a spectator bringing a donation item for the foodshelves.

And her I can only call them dental clinics are superb.
This is a 5 star facility with reagrds to care.

I have not posted there today and will not on this subject.
Because I do not want to give anyone an excuse to talk sh*t about this rescue based on their opinions of me.

Janie said...

BEXS:

I believe I found the bill that you were referencing...

"The Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2008, H.R. 6598, carries criminal penalties for the purchase, sale, delivery or export of horsemeat intended for human consumption including fines and prison time. Introduced on July 24, 2008 by House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI) and Representative Dan Burton (R-IN), the bill would amend Title 18 of the US Code, providing US government officials and law enforcement officials with the tools necessary to ensure that American horses are protected from the brutal trade for their meat."

http://www.awionline.org/news/2008/awi_testifies_judiciary.htm

That is not the same bill as the Animal Terrorism Act. The bill they are referring to is H.R. 6598 [110th]: Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2008. It failed in the House and never became signed in as law. You can reference the bill's full text and status here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6598

Anonymous said...

Dena said: "I have not posted there today and will not on this subject. Because I do not want to give anyone an excuse to talk sh*t about this rescue based on their opinions of me."

I think that is a good idea. I think it would instantly take credibility away from anything decent because of the way you present yourself everywhere. It would be very detrimental to be associated with you in any way, IMO.

Anonymous said...

GoL,
I have a little friend for Butch. I was given this little red plaid horse with black points by a friend of the family's when I was born, back in the last century.
Will try to get a pic of him to ya.

Anon PF

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:56

How very subtle. Just felt compelled didn't you.

Janie said...
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Janie said...

Doh, I mean *censorship.

O.K. I'm seriously going to shut down the blog updates on my Blackberry now. I need to get away. LOL.

bhm said...

Janie and Bexs,
What is the current law in the US surrounding horse slaughter? What is illegal and what isn't?

Toronto air can really get bad because we are mostly down wind of the US. Sometimes, in the summer when we are down wind of Northern Ontario, the air is beautiful. It also gives a break from the heat wave and humidity. Northern Ontario summers are the best. The air is sparkling clean and it's sunny all the time without being oppressively hot. I miss the North in the summertime.

Janie said...
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Anonymous said...

Anon 12:43

Yes, I did (feel compelled). No subtleness intended, either.

Anonymous said...

Anon

you would not be the same anon who posted that a young woman deserved to die because any decent person would have been at home are you?

Anonymous said...

Sorry Janie - I need to be Anonymous here. Simply because I do not need Dena "researching" me and raging and ranting as she has been doing lately.

Because screaming in caps that Cathy should EAT SHIT makes one sound so very reasonable and credible. Dena - the way you carried on at FHOTD last night was a bit much. How on earth did you think that would help?

In my opinion, if your research is truly impartial you are going to do a 180 on DCR again. They fit the classic hoarder profile to me. So is your campaign to make Cathy eat shit going to help the horses at DCR in the end?

By the way, I sure as shit don't agree with everything Cathy says. I never have and I never will. I see no mass hypnosis or cult-ilke devotion there at all. There seem to be just as many divergent views there as there are anywhere else - including here.

Moving on. Thanks for the interesting clarification about all the slaughter legislation. That can be a morass to wade through for those not tuned into such things (like me).

Golightly - it was a real horse. I tend to drop in at the Enumclaw Auction for my own sobering wakeup call (I had to skip it today). I have no room to pick up any horses but friends have in the past. We saw CTD in his pen there, head down and miserable as we went through the holding pens prior to the sale. We also thought he was a gelding at the time.
We were not able to stay for the horse part of the sale. My friend bought some decent tack for a bargain price at the tack sale that goes first. We had to leave after that but Champ was very real. You could see there was a quality horse in there somewhere. I have no photos or "proof" to show you but many of us in the area go to the sale and will have seen him. When I saw his photo on the FHOTD blog I was relieved to know someone had saved him - if only temporarily. I would like to say that I would have put him down after the initial xrays - but I also understand wanting to try to help, having been there in the past. Was I right? Likely not but I felt I had to try. Been there, done that.

Verification word: OUBLES < for ID purposes

Dena said...

Wench

It was very hard for me to watch the videos and look at the pictures.
I admit to having avoided the graphics on horses being slaughtered. In any manner.
It was very hard for me to make Pro-Slaughter my choice.
It is one of the last things I would want.
I have been on the fence about this for a very long time.
It is the suffering and lack of resources currently in place that finally made me say it is better than starving, thirsting, freezing, or going without medical attention, until they die, that made me say, Enough is Enough.
I do speak with cruelty investigators from all existing agencies.
One from PETA has repeatedly told me, that great change will not come without great suffering.
How many times have we read or heard now that horses are so cheap I am going to buy more?
The cost of care has nothing to do with the purchase price.
There was one woman recently under investigation on public assistance who had like 20 colts and fillies.
I guess I am not as strong as some.
Who are willing to wait out the Great Suffering.
And my faith in humanity is not such that I believe the predicted outcome will come to pass as predicted.

Some anons

Me? I am so tired. Tired of the suffering. Tired of the ignorance that promotes it.
Tired of all the fighting that accomplishes so little.
So if, being opposed to prolonged suffering, and being very vocal about that and other issues lacking ethics, makes me an indecent person, unworthy of association, due to the taint I will effect upon any foolish enough to ackowledge me?
So be it.
At least, I am not willing to defend the indefensible because I am too lazy to find another place to be.
Or secretly like to post abusive crap.
Because it makes me feel good.

flying fig said...

This is Oubles.

But you post abusive crap, Dena. And you pride yourself on it. I know you will always play the martyr /do-gooder but if you think that your Sunshine blog paints you in a good light, I am not sure what you are smoking. You would be better served to delete that blog if you want to be taken seriously. And to hold off on the screaming tirades.

Sorry to go back to that, Wench. I'll move on again.

Dena said...

And yes, I have a history of deflecting, inciting, whatever you want to call it, to encourage the more abusive idiots to take their angst out on me.

I really don't require the attention.
It isn't exactly designed to make one feel good.
Neither am I playing martyr.

Amazing how easy it is to take them off the track of abusing what they for the most part they have no clue about.
Their posts also go a long way towards exposing them to the readers.
And as it makes me look like an ass too when I drop to that level it is a price I am willing to pay in the effort of damage control.
That is my take, my motivator, and why I do it.

Anyone is free to interpret that any way they choose.
It doesn't change the why or the how.

And while, I do read the opinions and consider them.
I also consider this.
The number of readers vs. the number of posters.

And it is my opinion that the true attention whores have been doing this far longer than I.
Part of their daily bread so to speak. JMHO

flying fig said...

I hit return before I had a chance to finish. I changed my mind and decided that Dena can research me all she wants if she likes - whatever. All I need to say before I go back to trying to not give you any attention again is that you have seriously misquoted me at your Sunshine blog - and I would like to set that straight.

You said:

>>This from the one who was so lost and obviously confused, that she posted, that I was a nutcase for saying, someone from fhotd killed my son's rabbit and left the bloody carcass in the hutch? Which, I never did...<<

Only I never said anything of the kind. I guess I am not as lost or as confused as you thought.

What I did say... in response to those who posted that you were accusing FHOTD posters of trespassing and stealing or killing rabbits...

>>Killing rabbits?? Really?? How on earth would she know that - did they leave their SN in the empty rabbit cage? <<

No mention of bloody carcasses or nutcases.
SN = screen name. So all I said was that unless someone left behind their calling card there would be no way of knowing who did what to that poor bunny. You can research it if you like... the date tag is March 6, 2009 4:00 PM.

And now back to the horses. Sorry for the slight derailment, all.

Dena said...

Flying Fig

I am not going to argue with you. You are entitled to your opinions.

The blog you speak of I created solely for the purpose of allowing people to randomly bitch and be nasty.
About crap that for the most part does not matter.

As for being a do gooder that is a sarcastic term in the first place.
So no, I do not claim to be a do gooder.
I do what I can with regards to what I believe in.
Pretty simple/

I have never gone out of my way to invite people to post with regard to me here.
That is their choice I guess.

And because so many have delighted in using my past to color the picture of my present I assume that is why Wench deleted them.

It might surprise some to know that I very much wish that the world was a kinder and gentler place.
But it would seem that so many have so much anger and yes, are lacking in decency and courtesy that it likely won't become that way in my lifetime.

I loved the Champ thread if only for the reason that people regardless of their opinions were for the most part decent.
Have you ever seen me post aggressively and disrespectfully on a "NICE" fhotd thread?
Well except for when I droppped a bomb on CS.
Which I also apologized for.

I have to tell you Fig it is some of you the posters who make me the topic. Not me.
You would be amazed what I have learned to ignore.

So before this becomes another therapy/psychoanalize or hijack thing that is all I have to say about that.

Dena said...

Flying Fig
I never accused anyone of killing anything.
Neither did I quote you.
Because I did not remember your exact words.
You really could have posted that there though.
Instead of here.
So who is it again that is responsible for turning the attention to me?
I really am done addressing this here.

My catcha is idiojam

flying fig said...

Dena - I only posted that quiet correction here because - here you were. Online. At this blog. As was I.
I have been having trouble with Google and Blogger reacting badly to my Mac today - no bolding or italics or anything I usually do allowed! And I truly was Anonymous at first as Blogger would not even let me log in... so I gave up. I did not post on your Sunshine blog as I doubted that you would go back and look at older comments on your Fly This Fig rant. Not when you have a new project, anyway. I did not even know that blog was there until I was sent a link as an FYI.

I did not "turn the attention" to you. You were already here and posting - I did not call you out. I just carried on a conversation.

And actually, you have sailed in to a rather quiet, thoughtful thread on FHOTD and tipped it upside down with apparent glee after you had said you would no longer carry on like that - but I suspect that we will simply have different opinions on that and agree to disagree.

Just as we will agree to disagree that Dreamchaser Rescue got in waaaaay over their heads and that it was wrong for the Shiloh rescue to step in to help. JMO - maybe your research will change that opinion... or change yours. Time will tell.

Going all the way back to Cinnamon Swirl re slaughter..

>>I think that hesitation and thought of slaughtering stems from the fact that they have been an essential and useful part of people for so many years. People forget that although they weren't pets in the beginning, they weren't what I'd classify as true livestock, either.<<

Very true. And many of the true horse cultures who depended on horses for everything had no qualms about also using them for meat. While also revering them.

I still think they handled the slaughter legislation in a rather bass-ackwards way. Maybe they should have focussed on the transport horrors first - before closing the slaughterhouses and making the transport horrors last even longer.

And a stack of buckets that needs to be scrubbed awaits...

Dena said...

Flying Fig

The truth for me, as it should be for anyone, who, has not actually been to the rescues in question, is that I don't know, for a fact.
What the conditions are.
All I can rely on is evidence presented.
The fact is, AC was there. The fact is, AC had a vet of AC's choice, go there and exam every single equine there.
The fact is, AC has determined DCRR to be in complete compliance with all of AC's regulations.
That is what I know to be a fact.
As in it took place.
I am reacting to the attacks of rescues by other rescues.
Because, I believe that ultimately the horses suffer.
What I do not like is that SHR appears to have actively campaigned against DCRR and MHR.
That goes beyond professing a desire to help.
To the best of my knowledge, DCRR did not solicit the interview.
And now, they are catching all of the heat for the opinions of the photos.
That does not seem quite right to me.
And one other thing, some of the really great facilities for rescue, are new. While, the rescues themselves are not.
It takes a long time to build to that level.
MNHARF has been active for over 15 years. The director of that facility is my go to person on all things rescue.
I am amazed by and in awe of what they have built on so many levels.
MNHARF is not my competition. They are my friend/mentor in rescue.
We trade things back and forth. We do what we can for each other.
We provide support for each other.
Do you get where I am going here?
Whenever possible we work "together".
I am nowhere near that rescues level.
But I am so glad I can refer to them and learn.
She doesn't tell others what a craphole my place is. Even though, I think and say it is.
She says, well I had to start somewhere too and build my way up.
I do not compare myself to them. I am not trying to ride on their coat tails.
But I am so glad she went before me.
I have called her in tears saying I do not want to do this anymore because of all of the negativity.
And she helps me remember why I am doing this.
She has been called really horrible names. Probably mostly by people who do not take care of their animals.
She has dealt with a lot of the problems I just fell into.
And she never talks shit behind someones back.
I respect her and what she has accomplished greatly.
I wonder sometimes if she had someone to show her the ropes and hold her hand occasionally when she was getting started.
I hope so.
And that is where I think SHR is falling short.
Jill promised me that this was what she wanted to do. Help.
And after one time it all went to crap.
I very much appreciated the tone of your post referencing this.
You took into consideration that Diane might be reading it.
Another fast is, Diane has a Board of Directors too.
She can not just arbitrarily dispose of or give away what are considered to be assets of the not for profit.
It was my understanding that The BOD denied the horses in question being released to SHR.
The other 3 I think it was.
Diane was just the messenger.
Anything more on this will need to be addressed in the appropriate thread for it.
Sorry Wench. I am so Brittany.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:24

Nope. Different anon. I am simply someone sick beyond words of drama Dena purposefully (IMO) evokes. And I meant that original post (11:56) in all seriousness and without malice.

Bexs said...

BHM according to Title 18 and because all the slaughter plants in the US were foreign owned it falls under Chapter 3 section 48. I was told by my state rep that it fell under this act as soon as the USDA pulled their inspectors from all plants after Washington made a law stating it was illegal for horse slaughter houses to pay USDA inspectors.

"48 prohibits the possession of any depiction of animal cruelty with the intention of placing that depiction in interstate or foreign commerce for commercial gain, and provides a penalty of a fine under this title, or imprisonment up to five years,or both"


Now there are several states that are trying to build the loop hole around title 18 by making domestic slaughter houses that are not foreign owned. But in order to do it they have to appeal to their state legislation in order to have state funded USDA inspectors. Title 18 also does not cover the shipping of LIVE horses for slaughter purposes, it only covers the shipping of dead horses for monetary gain. That is where HR 503 came into play.
HR 503 wants to amend and revise Title 18 to put a stop to the transportation of horses across borders that are knowingly going to slaughter along with putting a legal stop to all horse slaughter, including the states that it is legal to slaughter your own horse for personal consumption.

The reason why I said that both Janie and Wench are correct is because legally there is no law against horse slaughter for human consumption. But there is a law against animal cruelty leading to slaughter for interstate and foreign monetary gain. The only way for the slaughter houses to get that loop hole is to get the state/US funding for the USDA inspectors which are there to inspect the workers and condition the horses are slaughtered in and make sure there is no abuse happening. They also must get state funding to build humane slaughter houses.

Personally, I don't think HR 503 is ever going to pass through more than the house bills. To many major associations are against 503 including AQHA, APHA, and AVMA and they are very vocal about where they stand.

Sorry so short and jumbled. But am typing fast before babies wake up.

Anonymous said...

Dena

Can't you leave it alone?

bhm said...

Janie and BEXS,
I though you might find the following letter interesting:

Great News for Horses!

Natural Meat Company Shuts Down

We are pleased to inform you that Natural Meat Company (formerly Natural Valley Farms) in Neudorf, Saskatchewan, closed its doors in mid-February. No more horses are being slaughtered in that facility!

According to the Director of Parliamentary Affairs for Canada, Natural Meat Company was shut down by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency for food safety concerns. At this time we are attempting to clarify details surrounding the closure.

Graphic evidence of animal welfare violations was documented at Natural Valley Farms in April/May 2008. This footage was released to CHDC by undercover investigators, and the concerns were aired on CBC's No Country for Horses the following month: http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/no_country_for_horses/no_country_for_horses.html .

In September 2008, CHDC Western Region Director, Twyla Francois, filmed horse blood from the slaughter plant being illegally dumped on the banks of a nearby river: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udbD6OeiUBY .

Further Good News from the U.S.

On April 3, 2009, the governor of Montana issued an amendatory veto on a bill that had already been passed by the Montana House and the Senate and simply needed an official signature. That bill was intended to stop any citizen from launching a lawsuit that might prevent a horse slaughterhouse from being built in the state. On April 2, 2009, CHDC had assisted U.S. horse defenders by supplying proof of the closure of Natural Meat Company for food safety reasons. This evidence then found its way into the hands of the governor. As a result of the veto, the amended bill will now go back to the legislature for consideration, thus opening up an opportunity for debate. With such strong evidence of food safety and environmental concerns, to say nothing of animal welfare violations that are inherent in the horse slaughter industry, it is clear that step-by-step progress for the horses is being made.
We applaud the Equine Welfare Alliance for serving as an intermediary between our efforts and the many wonderful grass roots groups involved in the state and federal initiatives in the U.S.

Anonymous said...

BHM: Thank you for posting that. =)

~DK

Hahahah my captcha is lowbro

GoLightly said...

Thanks for posting that, BHM. Saves me doing it.
Thanks.
I wrote a letter back, asking some questions, to the CHDC. I'll let you know what they said.

Flying Fig, for some odd reason, I thought you were in Canada. I hate geography, though.. No memory for it usually.

I have no doubt that the horse was real.
I'm sorry, but the simple request was there. I've taken it to e-mail, as requested. My Tad had X-Rays achingly similar to Champs. If indeed, they were Champ's.

For the record, Fig, I wasn't thrilled to see that sunshine thing. I had no need to see that. I commented in order to TRY to make the pathetic point, I'm always trying to make..
If it disappears, I would be thrilled.
It was not necessary. Not asked for. Quite embarrassing, really.

I was trying to make a point. Still hasn't worked, but hey, I try.

Oh, and Butch LOVES plaid!

To Humane Treatment, across the board.
Horses and humans, both.
THAT's a tough one, isn't it?

I do wish some big corp. would invest in people's lives, too.

Like Wal-Mart, maybe.
They have $$$$.

Good night, all:)

Anonymous said...

GL

I just wanted to say I love your posts. I enjoy reading them and how the bottom line is always really about the horses (and sometimes, people). And I always "get" your points.

Anonymous said...

"GL

I just wanted to say I love your posts. I enjoy reading them and how the bottom line is always really about the horses (and sometimes, people). And I always "get" your points."

I agree, anon. I think GL is flippin' awesome.

flying fig said...

You were close, GL. I am Canadian but now live in Washington. Let's see - born in Calgary, grew up in Montreal (maudit anglais!) and have lived in Alberta, Quebec and BC.

So you were not far off. And occasionally I do get your points through the stream of consciousness writing style that you prefer.... ;-)

Oh look - Blogger is letting me be myself and not an Anonymous now...

*pets Blogger to placate it*

flying fig said...

Crap, I have this bad habit of posting before I am done thinking. GL - remember, I saw Champ. We studied his front feet as he rocked to relieve his pain. If it helps you at all - I am 100% sure those xrays were his. Whoever the asshat was who let him get that bad deserves a special place in hell. It was hard to walk away from the horses - but I cannot help all of them. I have 2 here to feed and care for - and this is not my place. They get to stay out of the goodness of my boss' heart - and there is no room for one more. No matter how much I wish I could do it...

bhm said...

maudit anglais!
----------
LOL. I've be called that a few times!

Dena said...

The blog in question is no longer an open forum.
I do not have the time to edit 2.
So, I have reorganized my management of both.

It is almost 5AM and time to start chores here.
So, I will make this brief.
I very much enjoy this blog.
But as I can't seem to post anything without it somehow shifting the focus to me.
I will enjoy reading it and will no longer post.
I can't seem to ignore the sh*tslinging any better than some of you can refrain from slinging it.
I think Wench has a lot of good things to share.
When she isn't being hijacked.

flying fig said...

Not here to hijack anything...just to quote myself in reference to GoLightly...

>>And occasionally I do get your points through the stream of consciousness writing style that you prefer.... ;-) <<

... I should have said EVEN I get your points... as in my inability to follow along is at fault and not your writing style, which is uniquely yours and something you should never change... :-)

JT said...

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Wenchster, I have to say that aside from Dean coming in, this was one of the best blog entries I've read from you.
As both a FHOTD and FWOTD reader, I enjoyed this entry the most based on it's presentation of an idea contrary to what is presented at FHOTD. The highlight in it was that no where was a disparaging remark about Fugly's beliefs on the issue presented, rather simply your beliefs with support. This is what should be presented to provide readers with an alternative viewpoint that is well argumented and free of any quams or beefs that might be stirring.
Please try and provide more like these, maybe we can stick to the real issues without any drama...

JT said...

oops I ment Dena not Dean

Anonymous said...

This was happening even before we closed the slauter plants. The information you gave to protect your horse is good but, don't try and tell me this is happening cause the plants are closed! Horse meat is illegeal in th US.

dark horse running said...

i just wish something could be changed first of all horses are livestock they are no different hen a cow sheep pig etc. they are ment to use or be eaten. second of all all the great rescues that are over flowing etc. third the price of a good reg horse at a horse sale in canada three hundred and fifty buck people are making more money breeding weird or inbreed pocket/purse dogs... and the fact that over a hundred thousand horses formthe states are shipped to canada for slaughter a year thanks for not being responsible for the horses you have created and just shipping them off to another country in which now you can buy high end well bred yearlings for fifty bucks? like w tf? create a problem for someone else nice man up slaughter your own left over horses etc i think it is a sad day to see a horse shipped but hay at least there was a market at one time for the unwanted and fugly horses now this anti slaughter peeps have managed to put the horses through tons of pain and suffering and travel and abuse to be slaughtered in another country great move smart yup smart as a fence post

dark horse running said...

please slaughter your own horses in your own country..... as it is really nice that you pass a law we get the nice duty of doing your dirty deed and in the mean time it totally screws are horse industry. and just the fact that it cant be done in the states nice to know you rather them suffer in packed trailers and feed pens to be shipped to canada. its a damn animal sorry i grew up on a farm and if it was not usefull or needed it got shipped or put in the deep freeze. dont get me wrong i never put a horse in our deep freeze but if it was hurt it got put dowm pending if it was fixable etc if it was broke and not being used down the road to the next person thar needed a horse etc.