Today's FHotD post had to do with what happens when you have a horse online for sale and get stupid ad inquiries. Then went on to post an email from one of her readers that was a reply to one of those stupid ad emails. The email was frankly condescending and more or less over dramatized to make the person that had inquired about the horse she had for sale feel stupid or less human. Here is a snip-it from the email-
I was weeding my way through tons of the same old ignorant, teeny-bopper ad inquiries that are loaded with poor grammar and mis-spellings, when I came across your inquiry. I am doing the footwork in selling a race horse for my father and even though I know from your inquiry that you are not even a prospect home for (Horse), I'm wasting my time to respond anyway.
However, I would like to point out that you have made numerous statements in your inquiry that are for the most part untrue or make you look like a complete jerk. I have never been so irritated, yet amused by such a naive ad inquiry and I'd like to save other sellers from the mess of an inquiry you sent me. Please read an ad thoroughly, think before you send, remove the BS, correct your grammar and mis-spellings, don't talk down to the seller, don't refer to the seller's horse as dog food, and don't make yourself sound ignorant.
First as a business woman who has sold many horses over the years, you NEVER send emails like this one out to people that are responding to your ad, NEVER! Do you know how fast emails can be forwarded in the horse community? Do you know how many people are going to read your email reply and think "What a total @$$!" even if the person you sent the email to did ask some crazy questions? Someone could ask me for all I care if my horse wears a pretty pink tu-tu and dances in the rain, and I would still give them a respectful but honest answer, "No my horse doesn't wear a tu-tu, she's afraid of rain- but she does love trying on my jewelry!" As a seller you are never to condescend to a potential customer, even if they are full of BS or not likely to purchase. If you feel that a person is unqualified to purchase your horse, politely state that the horse is being leased with potential of purchase or that the horse has already found a home. Never send a 600 word or more berating email to that person telling them how unqualified they are and insult their intelligence.
I've gotten my share of those crazy emails, every professional or horseman that is selling has gotten them. But it takes a true saddle Hag to weed through those emails and write each and everyone that you feel is to dumb or ignorant how they shouldn't own your horse, or any ones horse for that matter. With todays technology, word of mouth spreads quick. There are message boards on almost every horse sale site where people with complaints or alerts can notify the general public about how you do business. And yes, an insulting email is going to cause most potential buyers to look else where and not even want to deal with those issues. I'll say this again, snark and berating is not going to change peoples actions. The human brain tends to shut down at the first sign of attack leaving most people too angry to want to learn or to even hear/read what you are saying. Just because someone is not the right person for your horse, this doesn't mean they aren't the right person for another horse. Emails like the one above are likely to cause people to not want to deal with even searching. On top of that it makes the world see horsemen/women as snobby- better than you types. True some are like that, but most aren't. It also will detain most beginners from wanting to put their toes in the water and actually ask questions to learn. Who wants to be ridiculed for trying to learn?
71 comments:
Guess business must not have been to good for the person who wrote the email since most people don't have the time to write long, bash fest emails to every tween that sends in for a sale horse.
I agree with you. To many people know each other. And even if someone just gets wind of a horse seller being trouble it can make business difficult. Rumours ruin a lot of good peoples lives so can you imagine what truth with proof could ruin?
In addition to the bashing email and ridicule to potential buyers who are "annoying", how many horses do you suppose will be put to sleep because; according to fugly it is the only way to keep your horse safe. While I can admit that there are people that should not own horses, and there is a potential for abuse, don't you think that it is a ridiculous assumption that there is NO ONE qualified to own your horse? It disturbs me that there is SUCH a HUGE Fear Factor on that blog, people are terrified to sell horses that they don't get along with, that are not suited to them, or more worrisome, when they are over-mounted. It is incredibly egotistical to assume that only certain people can ride-train-own if they meet certain criteria which is laid out by the fugly followers....And don't even get me started on Cathy's buddy Mugwump who publicly has a blow by if anyone makes a training suggestion if that person is not part of her circle....Because, you know, there is ONLY one way to do things...A lady made some very good training suggestions which were different from what Miss Mugs would have said and the next post was in huge letters, I AM CRABBY NOW....Granted they had a different approach from each other but the poster made what were safe and legitimate suggestions...It seems to me that the ego on some of these blogs is beyond belief.
Again, the anonymity of the internet leads people to say things that they wouldn't say to someone's face. Both parties are to blame really, but I definitely think they take their cues from media such as FHOTD that make it seem okay to treat other people like dirt and say anything you want to them over the computer. Pathetic cowards.
How many times can a person use the word "inquiry" in one paragraph and still sound professional herself?
the "hypocritical" comes into play once again
LOL
If the original email was deleted, it was pointless to post the response. For all I know, it could have been the most ignorant, badly written, antagonistic potential buyer ever to stalk the internet. Or, it could be a fairly ignorant but polite potential buyer, I certainly have no idea, because I haven't read the original email.
It's still ridiculous to talk to a potential customer like this, whether or not you actually want their custom; but it is doubly so to allow it to be posted on a widely read blog without even the benefit of the full story. What did Cathy mean this to illustrate anyway? What's the point if it isn't just to stir up the hordes?
I guess if you don't care about selling horses you can be that rude to an inquiry. I wouldn't. If someone took the time and trouble to e-mail me about one of my sale horses, even if they obviously sound ineligible to purchase it, the very least I can do is respond professionally. Maybe the next horse I have for sale would be just perfect for a tween that wants to braid daisies into Dobbin's mane. I don't know. But anyone that inquires is a potential customer and deserve to be dealt with as such. It's not like there are so many people shopping for horses that you can stand to offend someone; they all most certainly have the ability to make something private into something public. Reputations are a bitch to re-hab.
I completely agree.
I recently took a internet ad down because of the crazy responses I got and the people that showed up to view my horse...Instead of being rude to them, I just asked a price out of their range or stuck with my original price I had listed. One man did just stop by and ask about the horse and offered me $35 for him, but I had bad run in's with him before and was dialing 911 before he even stepped out of his truck.
Half the time when these people are responding to a horse for sale ad on the internet, it's children. My sister runs into that all the time...she thinks it's cute, she has the patience of a saint though...lol!
Xix said...
If the original email was deleted, it was pointless to post the response. For all I know, it could have been the most ignorant, badly written, antagonistic potential buyer ever to stalk the internet. Or, it could be a fairly ignorant but polite potential buyer, I certainly have no idea, because I haven't read the original email.
It's still ridiculous to talk to a potential customer like this, whether or not you actually want their custom; but it is doubly so to allow it to be posted on a widely read blog without even the benefit of the full story. What did Cathy mean this to illustrate anyway? What's the point if it isn't just to stir up the hordes?
February 18, 2009 2:20 PM
That's just a nice prime example of how Fugly posts things with just half the facts. She takes a piece of something and just runs with it...it just makes her look really bad and the person who sent her the email, look just as bad.
I've gotten frustrated before but I've never taken it out on the potential buyer. We have a pretty small community and I have no idea how soon I'll need to sell a horse again. I ensure all my transactions go as honestly and politely as possible - word of mouth is like wildfire in the equine world.
I strongly disliked how she didn't bother posting the original e-mail. If the entire story was not provided, it should not have been posted. The snarky response may have been entertaining if we were able to see just how stupid the original contact e-mail was, but without it, it's just some seller losing her temper and being a royal bitch.
There's just a certain amount of BS you have to deal with when you advertise. It just goes with the territory. If it's really annoying you can just raise the price of the horse. The higher the price the fewer tire-kickers, in my experience. Better quality horses attract a better quality of shopper. Maybe her friend is selling a cheapo horse that attracts cheapo buyers.
You get tire-kickers at all price ranges, but you get the really flaky ones more with cheaper horses. Made me vow to myself to never try to sell a horse for $1200 or less (though I was always polite and professional when replying). Seriously, how hard is it to say, "I don't think this is the proper horse for you." And if they get really pushy about it, "I am not selling this horse to you, but if you would like me to look for something more suitable for you let me know. I'd be happy to help you find something." If you get up above $3K you get a much better class of buyer inquiring. In my experience, of course. YMMV
Wazoo said...
That's just a nice prime example of how Fugly posts things with just half the facts. She takes a piece of something and just runs with it...it just makes her look really bad and the person who sent her the email, look just as bad.
Yeah, I do have to wonder about the person who sent this in. Did they send it in and ask her to post it up? Did Fugly just decide to do it anyway? Who would re-read that and say "yes, this is an exaple of me acting in an appropriate and rational manner, please advertise it to the interwebs!"
How do we even know that it was ever mailed in the first place - it could just be someone's attempt to impress Ms Fugs with their super snarky response.
I recently sold a 17 hand Tennessee Walker. Even though it was clearly stated in the title of the ad and the body of the ad, I got several emails asking how tall he was. I politely answered each one, even though I thought to myself they should read the ad better. I just don't understand being that rude to someone.
Formerly posted as LoveMyHorses, just updating you all as to my new name :-)
Unless your hypothetical horse really does love trying on your jewelry, you're being snarky to the buyer yourself.
Anon I guess I didn't read that the same as you read it. But I think, and Wench correct me if I'm wrong, that she meant that as a hypothetical ridiculous question and not an actual question.
Such as if someone asked me,"Does your horse like to have mud fights with his horse buddies?" And my reply would be,"No, but he does love taking baths and enjoys playing in the water."
To The Wenchster
I have had it brought to my attention that my readers have been unable to link on today.
Not quite sure what the difficulty is, but, if, you go to my profile here "Dena" and follow that it link should take you there.
Hey thanks for reading by the way!
Sorry about that Dena. I'm trying to figure it out so we can get your link viewable. I'm not that great with computers but I'm trying to figure it all out. I'll have you going ASAP!
Alright Dena. I got your link up and running! :)
Wenchster... totally unrelated to your topic... but I have a question for you on my blog. Would you be ever so kind as to grace me with your presence. Also, do you have an email link anywhere? If you do I'm blind and I can't find it!
I'll say from experience that I had one of the biggest surprises when calling about a horse for sale. The seller was absolutely obnoxious. Rude. It happened many years ago but was an experience I'll never forget.
I think a seller can darn well tell the difference between a novice and a professional horseman.
The novice questions and kids inquiries can totally try your patience but to be rude to a pro or someone who is no doubt near your own age and knowledgeable is unforgivable. I cannot figure out why someone would deliberately shoot themselves in the foot on a horse sale.
I posted a similar comment on the "Geez Louise" entry saying that when I first started looking for a horse, I know I was an annoying customer. I had done my homework--read some articles and studied Cherry Hill's "Horsekeeping on Small Acreage," but I didn't know what I was doing. Now when I look back on it, I know I asked some stupid questions or some accidently insulting questions.
Luckily, the buyers I interacted with were really nice to me, patiently fielding all of my questions and just generally being understanding. There IS a learning curve when you do something new, and buying a horse isn't a small undertaking. I would have been extremely discouraged if I had someone send me a snarky email.
I'm not sure what Cathy hoped to accomplish with the "when good sellers" entry. It's not offering advice on how to be a better buyer (for example, a list of top 10 must-ask questions or a list of must-dos would have been more useful). I guess it's just a way to prove that Cathy is the snarkiest of them all. Wow. What a claim to fame.
Two other thoughts:
To the person who suggested that without the original email, it's hard to contextualize the snarky seller response, you are absolutely correct. It's like having a sliver of information with which to make a decision. Good reporting dictates that you include details from the original email and counter that with the snarky response.
And to Anonymous #2 who asked "how many horses do you suppose will be put to sleep," I imagine a lot. Reading Cathy's blog has made me feel like it would be impossible to find a good buyer for my mare if I decided to sell her. The standards for owning, buying, selling, riding a horse are impossibly high as dictated by Cathy and her follower.
Trainingemmy said...
I'm not sure what Cathy hoped to accomplish with the "when good sellers" entry. It's not offering advice on how to be a better buyer (for example, a list of top 10 must-ask questions or a list of must-dos would have been more useful). I guess it's just a way to prove that Cathy is the snarkiest of them all. Wow. What a claim to fame.
See, this sums up why I went off the Fugly blog in the first place. The gradual phasing out of interesting, potentially useful information in favour of pointless snarking. It's a shame.
On the subject of buying and selling, although I've never been involved in the horse industry from either end, I did have an interesting experience while helping my sister obtain a rescue cat. We decided to go through a local rescue (hereafter referred to as CPL) that my parents had used some 14 years ago to get our family cats, Thelma and Louise. (At the time this happened, we still had Louise, although Thelma sadly disappeared shortly after we moved house. We never did find out what happened to her.)
I don't know what had happened in the intervening years, but the once nice-but-eccentric American lady who ran it had apparently become a little more than eccentric over time. All went well to begin with - we went to the facility, saw the various cats available, explained that what we were looking for was a nice, relaxed, older cat, and so on. No red flags there, even if some of her questions were a little odd ("are there a lot of youths in your area?" - Um, yes. This is central London. Are you suggesting there are areas of central London without young people in?)
It was on the house visit though, that things got a bit weird. She commented on everything, directly cat related or not; ("nice wallpaper, did you paint the kitchen orange or was it already like that, etc. etc.") she was shocked that my sister was planning to microchip her new pet rather than collar it; ("it's invasive! How would you like a barcode under your skin!") and she was even more shocked that we'd consider letting the cat have access to the large garden when my sister was at work, rather than making it fester in the house all day. The oddest thing of all though was the conversation we had on the stairs. There's a large window in my sister's house that is at floor level for the mezzanine of the stairs. CPL lady stopped in front of it and put her hands on her hips.
"That looks dangerous." she said, still apparently shocked about the microchip thing. My sister explained that the window was never opened - and, in fact, clearly couldn't be opened as it had been painted over so many times. She demonstrated its lack of function, but that wasn't good enough for CPL lady. Stepping forward, she threw herself against the window!
Luckily this was a nice old victorian house, built like a fortress and the only damage was presumably some bruising on her part. Still, we were on the third floor! Anyway, CPL lady peeled herself off the glass, muttered something about cats running down stairs, then turned to me and my sister and said accusingly: "Well, you have too many stairs!"
She left soon after that, and me and my sister were actually pretty relieved she clearly wasn't going to place a cat with us. We went down to the local RSPCA shelter, had another home visit conducted by someone with a smidge more professionalism (who pronounced the house and my sister's plans perfectly acceptable, by the way) and my sister obtained a lovely, nervous two year old cat with no teeth and the smallest miaow in the world; who has been microchipped, gambols cheerfully in the garden, and has never hurled herself against anything, even when running down the stairs.
Even weirder, though, was that CPL lady did contact my sister a week or so after her visit, got through to my sister's husband, and declared that she had been "very impressed" with my sister and the house, and wanted to place a cat with us! By then, the other rescue was already in progress, but I don't think my sister would have taken her up on the offer even if it wasn't. I don't know what that illustrates, except maybe her total battiness, but this seller's email reminded me of her a little, in it's cloying self righteousness.
As a coda to that long and slightly pointless story, when Louise was eventually PTS for cancer, my parents considered getting another rescue (after an appropriate mourning period, of course) and actually considered using CPL, despite me and my sister's warnings. However, we'll never know if my parent's house has too many stairs, as a lovely fluffy tabby 'year-old' kitten turned up on our doorstep, pitifully hungry and scruffy as an urban fox. Of course, it then turned out he wasn't a year old as the vet first thought, he was about four months old and quickly grew to the size of a small leopard and assumed mastery over all the other animals in the area. It's truly a joy to watch a cat the size of a dog chasing a large male fox up and down the garden before consuming enough cat food to single-handedly keep Purina in business.
Xix - you just about had me in stitches with that story. I have experience with cats, cat rescues and random rescuers and most of them are strange and unusual ( I probably come under that heading as well - at the moment I have 13 resident cats)
I can't imagine that a horse rehoming would be very much different really ( except for the stairs maybe !)
Wenchster, Cleve Wells has posted a response to the charges of abuse on his Web site www.clevewells.com. I'm not a QH person, so I'm curious about your opinion on this case and on his answer to the charges of abuse.
i dont post much but wanted to say that i emailed this seller and with me she was very nice and very helpful and answered all of my questions and there were alot of them! she responded to my email and told me why this horse would not be the best for me because he needs a experienced horse person. she also gave me the number of someone who has a horse that would be better for me and told me to talk to my traner. i did not have 1. she also called and talked with my mom and now im getting lessons!
if you read the post this came from you will see that the jerk that emailed her called the horse dog meat alot and said that all race horses are abused and agresive. they wanted her to give them the horse so they could rescue it and resell it because it was going to be dog meat because it was with race horse people. they said they know everything about riding and traning and race horse people know nothing but abuse. they are 18 years old and think they know everything and called the horse that they never even met agresive and un-predicable and dog meat. yet they wanted the horse to rescue and resell. they were mean and stupid and they are 18! im happy the seller was mean back. she was not mean to me at all.
iluvhorses:
Personally, I don't think for one second that this seller is like this all the time, and I don't think many other people have suggested that either. However, that does not change the fact that her response to the seller was unnecessary and unprofessional.
We all have to deal with idiots in our lives, there's no point ranting and raving and taking out your pet peeves on one particular idiot - chances are they'll learn nothing and it's not particularly instructive. I'm not saying that I've never had a disproportionate response to such situations, but I sure as hell wouldn't surrender my responses to a blog to be posted to the world. That action suggests the seller was proud of her response and thinks others should emulate it, rather than shrugging it off as a moment of untempered rage.
Moreover, the whole post is invalidated by the lack of the original email. From the parts she quotes in her response it does indeed appear that this person was an ignorant idiot - but I for one would still like to see the original post, regardless. Without that original email the whole thing is pointless. It illustrates nothing except one person's moment of weakness. Again, I find it hard to understand why Cathy would post this. Surely there are other email conversations with other idiots where all the messages are available to view? Post one of those so people can evaluate for themselves how appropriate the response was.
I am happy that the seller did not sell her horse to this person. I'm happy that you had a good experience with this seller. I'm not happy that the seller thinks this message reflects well on her in any way. I'm not happy that Cathy thinks this is blog worthy. I'm not happy that many people can't see what is wrong with publicly airing that email.
For once, I agree with your post. All very good points, and I thought very well said.
The seller didn't need to send this reply back to this person and rip them a new one. There's a magical thing in all e-mails, and it's called the delete button. Just delete it and move on if you think you are going to reply in this manner. Or better yet, have a standard response for this person such as, "Sorry, but the horse is already in a purchasing agreement with another buyer."
It's not hard to do. Heck, write up general responses, put them in wordpad, then just save them for when you need them. It saves a lot of trouble for both parties.
Anon...Thanks for the link to Cleve Wells' response to all that has happened.
Sadly, I don't think we will ever know exactly what happened. The truth is, I have seen BNTs really abuse horses, with my own eyes. Not just some excessive yanking and jerking and unnecessary spurring, but some truly horrifying, spur till they bleed, put massive bits in futurity horse's mouths and yank the crap out of them, to bruise and sore the inside of the mouth, so when they put the snaffle back on to show with the horse is so tender that the lightest wiggle of the reins causes the horse to duck and drop his head.
I'm absolutely NOT trying to be overly dramatic. I'm not above getting after a horse for a specific purpose. But a lot of these trainers get after a horse and then just keep torturing them specifically to intimidate them.
A lot of people think it is easy to tell the difference between a horse that has been abused to attain the consistency they need to win at the higher levels and one who is just naturally good at it. That is not always the case. A lot of the abusive tactics take place very early in the training of these horses to force them into the correct frame of body and mind and then they are finished out and prepared for showing.
Also, I am not trying to defend Cleve Wells in any way or absolve him of things that might happen at his barn, whether he is there or not, but these BNT's usually never ride any of the horses at their barn until they are almost ready to show. They are gone a lot of the time, doing what people pay them to do...show horses and win on them. I'm pretty sure that if CW had walked into his barn and saw this horse in that shape, heads would have rolled. It does not behoove these trainers to have anything like this happen or get to the point where a horse is severely injured and then left uncared for.
I do find it interesting that CW posted that the horse was entered in and placed 2nd at an event 2 months after leaving his place. The pictures of the horse that were posted showed horrible damage, along with the purported broken jaw, I personally would think that it would take a lot longer than 2 months for all of that to heal sufficiently for the horse to be ridden, much less shown?? And didn't they say he was mentally in bad shape? How can a horse overcome such physical and mental abuse in such a short amount of time?
It certainly raises more questions than it answers, IMHO. However, I did like the fact that this became a public and much debated event. A reality check to the BNT's needs to happen a lot more often. Just because they win, shouldn't make them above question or reproach!!
Browneyedcowgirl
I really enjoyed reading your comment.
Rational thought is always valuable in discerning the truth of secondhand information.
Can I just say THANK YOU! Cathy knows nothing about showing AQHA or even what a nice quarter horse looks like, she rode polo ponies for cliff's sake!!!!
Funny thing is I was looking at that kook's "shame in the show ring" blog and found yours - ha. ha!!!
Great comments here you guys...have enjoyed reading all of them!!! Can't say that about too many blogs that actually bring in intelligent responses.
I sooo agree with you RoanHorse!!
Okay, I'll admit it - even knowing that going there enriches Fugly, and being not at all sure that's a good thing, I'll still drop in to see what's up. And there are still things to learn.
On of her commenters posted a link to this:
http://www.walkinonranch.com/Celebration.html (you'l want to turn your sound off or down in some places).
I've known about soring and such for about a year now, but had never seen video of a TWH without all the ridiculous stacked shoes and "big lick" gait. WOW!
How can ANYBODY see this and think the "big lick" is a good thing? Those poor horses with the stacked shoes look silly at a walk, broken and in pain at anything faster. The "natural" horse looks like he could go all day and be happy to do it.
Hello Good People
I took a little spin on the blogs ride today to gather more research in the interest of presenting facts.
Please keep up the good work.
This whole blog thing has proven quite enlightening.
What some people will do given the cover of anonymity.
Quite the sordid dirty little mess.
High ground is a good place to be.
Less run off and mess on you.
Please keep doing what you are doing.
This Fugly Thing/Manure Pile/Litter Box needs daily exposure.
BrownEyed Cowgirls said...
Anon...Thanks for the link to Cleve Wells' response to all that has happened.
***
BrownEyed: I posted that link. (I was having trouble logging in with my user name.) Thanks so much for the excellent review of the situation. I have to admit, despite my general ignorance about the QH world, I definitely have felt that something was very strange about the whole situation from the beginning. I feel like some piece of information has been left out. It's just at the edge of my field of vision, but no matter how hard I strain, I can't get it into focus.
I did find it interesting that the sheriff and the animal control folks decided not to pursue the case. It's hard to know if that's because there's nothing to pursue or because it's a small, tight-knit community. I haven't liked the "he's guilty, no doubt about it" approach Cathy and her followers have adopted, but again, I'm really quite ignorant of QH politics.
What some people will do given the cover of anonymity.
Quite the sordid dirty little mess.
Were you being intentionally ironical?
I find these long-standing internet feuds amusing. So far I count 17 posters here who have personal axes to grind with Cathy Atkinson and are pretending that THIS is the moral high road.
--
One comment on the original post...while I agree that "delete" would probably have been the more professional approach...the truth of it is that people will put up with a ton of bullshit in the horse industry if a seller happens to have what the buyer wants.
I really wish that poor (pathetic) customer service had a bigger negative impact on horse-related business, but high quality, well-trained horses are still in high demand and low supply. I've been talked down to, accused of fraud...countless other things dealing with show people who figured that I was a little too low-brow for their animals. Or too high brow for them. I just smiled and sent off my polite replies and pursued the horses I wanted.
Perhaps the economic downturn will increase the competition in the market, but it won't be necessarily the best customer service that wins out.
I think my dad has the best take on it...the regular laws of commerce don't really apply to an industry that is completely unnecessary.
Really, I think this post and the blog in general are about injecting some civility into how we interact with one another. By posting the rude response to a customer on her site, Cathy as good as says "here, do it this way...this is how we talk to people."
For the record, Sarcasta, I don't know Cathy from Adam. She's some woman who blogs. I don't like how she promotes incivility on the Internet. That's why I'm here.
Sarcastawhateva
And your post proves exactly what?
I know that I personally find the elevated use of the english language here to be much more indicative of intelligence and reason than most anything I have seen over there?
The only valid points at this time are that Cathy as you call her has in effect proven herself guilty of FRAUD AND CHRONIC HYPOCRISY!!!
Maybe it is 17 people her broke wannabe poser ass defrauded of money to save her, oops, I mean someone elses horse?
You think? Much? Ever? I mean for yourself?
Is there an antidote for this type of mentality?
I mean besides correctional facilities?
Sarcasta, what I find truly amusing is that you come on this blog solely for the purpose of rabble rousing and doing nothing more than trying to fan the flames of animosity that aren't really here. Much like a troll. You want screaming, cursing and ill will, go back to fugly. You really wouldn't be missed here. Or hardly noticed.
Sarcasta
The beauty of posting here is that you can post anonymously and not have to defend anyone or anything.
You can represent your beliefs and ideals.
You can ask questions if you so choose.
In essence you can be you.
Sounds good you think?
You were mentioned here http://shameinthehorseshowring.blogspot.com/2009/02/ignorance-abounds-and-we-know-just.html
by the way, I love your blog!
You guys should really really learn how to do a little research yourselves.
The pictures are from 2005 it took 3 years to get released from the USDA to the investigator who made a request.
Want to see some recent pictures of the horror horses face at slaughter go look for them , they are out there. Or do you just follow along with the rest of the idiots at fuglywenchoftheday
Good lord people talk about minions and kool aid. She could claim Cathy was a man and you would all buy it and swear it was gospel.
What a bunch of useless fucks you all are.
fuglypony: You're one of the major reasons this blog exists, you're just another follower of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, who doesn't have the balls to say it to someone else's face and can only spread hatred and vomit up bad behavior. The Wenchster has turned the light on and it doesn't illuminate your idol and you don't like that.
We don't care. You don't like it here, leave. I, for one, among many others, are happy to see fugs exposed for what she truly is. A sham. So, just keep defending her. One of these days, she'll turn on you. Wouldn't that be poetic.
I'll start out by saying, Kudos to you. I'm a new addition. Someone just forwarded me the link to this blog just a few hours ago. I hadn't followed FHOTD's blog because I think she's such a leech on appropriate and professional equine society, and reading her drivel was more then I could handle. Previously I'd considered creating a blog just like this, but did not have the time to follow her asinine posts, and was way too lazy to keep up with someone who appeared to have nothing more then free time on her hands to rip apart people she didn't, and would NEVER know. So I really applaud you for keeping up with her. Especially in the defense of the people she ignorantly rips to shreds.
For someone who bases her following on word of mouth, you'd think she'd at least attempt to encourage people talking bullshit to their potential clients. I hate to say it, but even the 14 year olds and "tweens" have parents that buy them ponies. EVEN in this market. Replying with condescending and unprofessional responses is NOT conducive to selling horses. It's not conducive to selling dvds, or books, or fashionable clothing either. NEWS FLASH. It's shocking isn't it? The best part is when someone who's parents have hundreds of thousands to spend on that one special horse regard a response and forward it all over the internet. One in a million? Maybe. But it only takes one to RUIN your reputation as a professional.
Either way, as I said. Having found your blog, I want to say I'll not only fully invest my free time to your cause, but will do my best to discredit that unlikeable goiter and you've got my full support. And the best part is, I won't hide behind the anonymity of the internet (which she did for so. SO long...), and I'll actually do research to back up my loud mouth claims and accusations. (something she fails at miserably). And I really AM loud mouthed. It'd be one thing if she'd taken photos, pulled up case files, complaints, and visualized situations herself, but she doesn't. She's just really good at accepting forwards, photos, and information hadned to her, and being a shit talker behind people's back without so much as granting them the opportunity to defend themselves.
Bravo to you, Wench. Bravo.
LOL, I just finished reading the entire string. I've never actually joined a blogger group and was unaware new posts were placed at the bottom. So I started reading from the bottom up.
Anyway, that being said, *I* personally have no "proverbial" axe to grind. I just think the owner of FHOTD is a tactless, and usually misinformed (for the purpose of simply taking one photo from a poorly laid out website or craigslist ad) and acting like her shit smells like crushed pineapple.
I thought everyone moved past that stage when they hit their 23rd birthday.
What's her excuse?
Sarcasta and fuglypony: I truly wouldn't know Fugly if she were standing right in front of me; I doubt many here would.
Most people here are protesting her abusive and often misleading blog entries.
I have no personal axe to grind;I'm just not okay with ridiculing people or horses in the manner in which FHOTD does. If you are, that's your problem but don't drag it over here. I am also not okay with you calling people "useless fucks", FP.
Take it elsewhere please...
Xix...Loved your story!!...you're so lucky that the "batty" lady didn't fall thru that window(the glass didn't give way)..glad it was painted shut!!!! Looking for a new dog, cat, horse, or whatever is really an adventure, isn't it?!!
Fugly babes....hit the road; your cheap mouth and nasty talk and intentions do not blend with this blog.....beat it, outcast.
Anonymous...I just had to say something about the Cleve Wells case.....I'd heard that he was hard on his horses about two years ago from another pro trainer friend from the AQHA. At the time, I was surprised and disappointed..no member of the AQHA wants to hear that a trainer is hard/abusive on a horse in training. However, the stories continued until this latest Cleve Wells donneybrook.
I read through his response and sensed quite a degree of arrogance on his part. A "looking down his nose" at the commoners....He states he has received nothing but complements from his customers which I find to be an unrealistic exaggeration.
No trainer is perfect and no training set up is perfect. I've been around multiple trainers over the years(over 50 years), they've been/are friends of ours and do some training for me from time to time. I have learned that there are customers that you cannot please, no matter what you do. There are those customers that will be unhappy for what ever reason. However, this time around the complaint against Wells seemed to be founded in fact. Evidence was provided through photographs even though the local DA apparently felt he didn't have enough to "go" on, to prosecute Mr. Wells. The owners of the abused horse may seek remuneration for monies lost either in futurities entered, training, or loss of the use of the horse, in civil court and I sincerely hope they pursue this remedy.
In the interim, Wells has lost his professional horseman status through the AQHA and I feel that is a start in the right direction. I also feel he should draw a suspension of several months, he cannot show or be on a show grounds, and large fine for being so unaware of the damage done to a horse under his care. No excuse for that.
Employees can sink a business, doesn't matter what the business is, and Wells paid no attention to an incompetent assistant and now his inattention has come back to haunt him. Other trainers have been caught in unscrupulous activities and have paid the price through suspensions and fines...Mr. Wells isn't above that although I sense he thinks he is.
Comments on Mr. Cleve Wells suspension from "Go Horse Show"..
http://gohorseshow.com/article.cfm?articleID=23666
FuglyPony: Do you really have to use that kind of language to attempt to insult us? Believe it or not, I would find your invective against us much more devastating if it didn't use profanity. If you use logic to undermine your opponent, not names, you might find it to be a better strategy.
Fuglypony: That last sentence made so much sense...your attempt to insult is pathetic. And made any point you were trying to make so...invalid.
Xix said...
Wazoo said...
That's just a nice prime example of how Fugly posts things with just half the facts. She takes a piece of something and just runs with it...it just makes her look really bad and the person who sent her the email, look just as bad.
Yeah, I do have to wonder about the person who sent this in. Did they send it in and ask her to post it up? Did Fugly just decide to do it anyway? Who would re-read that and say "yes, this is an exaple of me acting in an appropriate and rational manner, please advertise it to the interwebs!"
I don't know, even if they didn't mean for her to post it...anyone who emails Fugly anything has got to realize that there is no privacy and she's going to blog about it she thinks she can get a reaction out of it.
I gues, the buyer that got chewed out was a member of the "Fugly Mob" trying to "save" this horse from the race track. Fugs just posted the response to crap from one of her own followers, who thought they were doing a good thing by attacking a seller and accusing all race horse owners of abuse and neglect.
OK I'm back. Finally got back to my old google account. I will try to keep this one up and running. Too many passwords to remember when using different computers.
This may double post but I will try again anyway.
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back on here. Have not been feeling to good.
So I'll start with Cleve Wells. Like roanhorse said, there has been buzz about his ill training practices for years, just most were never investigated. I'm not trying to take the blame off Cleve with my following statement, as he is intirely to blame for his actions and partially to blame for his employees actions. But I do also partially blame the equine industry for these big wig trainers pursuing the behavior and training techniques they are. The equine sports are becoming more and more demanding. Competitors that are wanting to win big money, get that stallion or prize mare to shows and win are putting more and more pressure on the trainers to get the training done as fast as they can with the same winning results. The equine training industry is turning much like into the surgical field. A trainer wants every horse to be successful just as a surgeon wants every operation to go smoothly. Every time there is a botched surgery or a patient dies, those records follow those surgeons for a long time. Just as a trainers show and win record follows them.
It does worry me a little bit that it was reported just two months after the horse was removed from the property and photographed with it's injuries the horse was back in the show ring placing even though the owners said the horse was mentally unstable.
I don't feel sorry that Cleve is now outed. Anyone that practices abusive training should be. He does have a tone of arrogance to him and maybe now with his AQHA standing it'll get a message across to other trainers that could be training the same way or may be under the pressure to train the same way that this is not the way to go. I don't expect this to be the last big wig to be outed for abusive training. When you're under the pressure to train a winner at all costs, you can expect to see more and more of these types of trainers looking to make the next futurity winner in a short time.
I do not know Cathy & I am not one of those 17 people. But I do know she is everything pointed out on here & that is why Sarcastawhateva is sooo upset!!!! LOL Go away no one cares to hear what you have to say!!
& for who said this- Bravo! Bravo! Perfectly put!!! LOL
Anonymous said...
Sarcastawhateva
And your post proves exactly what?
I know that I personally find the elevated use of the english language here to be much more indicative of intelligence and reason than most anything I have seen over there?
The only valid points at this time are that Cathy as you call her has in effect proven herself guilty of FRAUD AND CHRONIC HYPOCRISY!!!
Maybe it is 17 people her broke wannabe poser ass defrauded of money to save her, oops, I mean someone elses horse?
You think? Much? Ever? I mean for yourself?
Is there an antidote for this type of mentality?
I mean besides correctional facilities?
Oh, sarcasta and fuglypony I don't like cathy because she is basically another form of Parelli, rabid followers, her own little catchphases and not a lot of realy knowledge or insight. hmmm, funny.....
I also think it is hilarious that she now has a qh stallion, this is a woman who complained about lunge line classes in AQHA, yeah, real cruel, cathy. **eyeroll** and HUS/English eq in AQHA, - really, she has NEVER COMPETED in AQHA why would I listen to her brilliant insights?
All she ever did was give nasty old bats who ride "dressage" a forum to moan about how bad everything THEY don't do is.
and HUS/English eq in AQHA, - really, she has NEVER COMPETED in AQHA why would I listen to her brilliant insights?
I think she has competed AQHA, but it was a long time ago. She has talked about it before. You don't have to listen to anyone's insights about showing. Or anything, for that matter.
And to the LOVELY anonymous, if you want to keep insults off this comments page KEEP THEM OFF. observing that several of the commenters here have popped up on forums over the past five years or so, always with some problem with Snarkosaurus or whatever is NOT AN INSULT.
Did you notice that my previous post had another three paragraphs, and a relevant point about how in the horse industry the product sells far more than the customer service? Did you have a comment about that?
All she ever did was give nasty old bats who ride "dressage" a forum to moan about how bad everything THEY don't do is.
I definitely wouldn't call the FHOTD crowd a Dressage crowd. The spelling and language is too poor, for one thing. While a few may claim to ride Dressage, based on the comments, questions and general attitude, it is doubtful to me that many of the posters have ever ridden one hoof into a real Dressage ring. Don't disparage the sport, please.
sarcastabitch everything you say sounds like Blaaaa Blaaaaa Blaaaa
AmericanMadeMorgans, that's because you're functionally illiterate.
You can click on my name and magically my posts will disappear!
My goodness...I saw a comment about calf roping on FHOTD comments and asked my own question...you can see question below:
Wazzoo said...
HorsesHealUs said...
Wazoo,
I don't want to get in a pissing match with you. I am not in the mood.
All the Rodeo shit bothers me---I am offended by pretty much everything other than barrel racing. But I really can't handle the things that calves are subjected to in particular.
I am not asking you to agree with me. I know you don't. I am just expressing my opinion. I attended the National Western Stock Show this year because my trainer was doing the Working Hunters. Even though I love my trainer, I am never again going. Hated what I saw. Just not my thing.
If you look at what I asked the first time, you would see that I said nothing about rodeo. NOTHING. I asked about ranchers and roping calves on the range.
Wazzoo said...
HorsesHealUs said...
Child Protective Services should be called right away to take away the kids put on the bulls. That is nothing short of blatant child abuse.
Also, I know the kid was just learning to rope a goat...but nothing turns my stomache more than a calf getting roped and dragged. You've just got to be sick in the head to get a thrill out of that.
Flame away!
Not here to flame you, but how is that any worse than a rancher roping a sick calf out on the range? Just curious?
February 20, 2009 12:23 PM
See? Nothing about rodeo. My goodness...
February 20, 2009 12:42 PM
My goodness, can we say WOW! Talk about over-reacting!
Can you do a post about past working ranches and modern ones? So people can see how things have and haven't changed during the ages?
Wow...it's really hard to ask even a most innocent question of someone over there at fugly's...
sarcasta, that is why "dressage" was in quotes. I am talking old bat too scared to jump "dressage" riders. not Dressage Riders. know what I mean.
If cathy show AQHA, she never showed it much or she would not be so ignorant about it. She may have "shown" it as a kid, but my understanding was that she crashed polo ponies around all her life.
Sarcasta if you don't mind me asking. What does spelling or grammar have to do with riding ability? I've known some darn great riders that can't spell worth a spit and speak like a 5 year old. My own father and grandfather were homeschooled, but because of ranch work they rarely got to their book work and lessons. The only lessons they had were math, because when you're working cattle, you better know how many heifers are out there, how many were bred, and how many calves have been cut away from the herd.
Your general comment that because they can't speak or write worth a darn so they MUST not be good enough riders is insulting.
sarcastabitch I didn't say I couldn't read them. I said it sounds like blaaaa blaaaa blaaaaaa
Maybe you should look in the mirror.
A great friend of mine, fine horseman, richer than Midas, can't spell worth a darn and really doesn't care much about sentence construction. Try sending him a scathing dress down and he'll buy the county you live in so he can kick you out, just for fun!
Read "True Horsemanship By Feel" by Bill Dorrance. Not much proper grammar, but the horses don't seem to care.
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