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Snarky commentary on the breeding of a poor quality woman, her silly and abusive teaching techniques and pretty much anything else that annoys me about her! Your UNCENSORED place to vent about this woman being in the horse world!

Fugly Wench of the Day

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This is a philosophical blog about.....oh, screw it!!! This blog is dedicated to calling Cathy, the FHotD writer, out on her bull sh*t!

Friday, February 27, 2009

If it smells like BS, then it probably is

Call me skeptical, but something smells fishy about the FHotD post today. I'm sure you all know the saying about the duck? This wouldn't be the first time someone on a forum told a wild rescue/sale story just for attention. In fact, my daughter sent me a forum post from the free speech board where a lady spun a story about how she retired her show horse because of lameness to a retirement horse barn only to be told later that her horse had passed away, stating that the retirement barn even went as far as sending her photos of the grave site. Shortly after that she said she went onto the internet to find that her retired show horse wasn't dead, but in fact was being shown even though the horse was suppose to be "lame and dangerous to ride." She spun her story for a while trying to get a reaction until she was confronted by a couple of forum members that called her BS. Turns out this person that was spinning that story had done this years and even months earlier on different boards. She fled Free Speech as soon as she was caught and called out.
So it wouldn't surprise me if Cheree embellished her story so she could be featured on FHotD. Here is why-

"The auction didn't even start yet?!" Rita new where he had gone...he was in the kill pen... purchased privately by a meat buyer before the start of the auction.... We found the broker who brought him to the sale and proceeded to find out which dealer bought him and if he was in fact in the "pen."
Sorry, but I have to agree with BEC on this one. I've said it before- kill buyers do not discriminate. They don't care if the horse is sound, safe, and sane no more than they care if the horse is skinny, lame, or crazy. But in all my years I have yet to see purchases made before start of auction when the horse is already tagged and registered in the auction- especially purchased by a kill buyer. I've seen purchases made while the horse is being unloaded to be tagged and I've seen purchases made after a owner POs a horse. Kill buyers aren't going to purchase a horse before the auction because they are in it to save a buck and make a buck. They would rather spend $500 on ten horses rather than spending $500 on one horse. Simple as that. They aren't going to give you a $100 offer on a horse before auction because your horse could very well sell for $50 when run through.
I had five good ol' boys at once telling me "You don't want that crazy son of a bitch, that horse will hurt you, he is CRAZY!" "I'm not gonna sell you that horse, he deserves to be slaughtered, that crazy son a bitch got loose in here, and it took five of us to catch him, we had to rope that crazy a$% horse, you do not want that horse!" I politely asked and stated "what makes him so crazy?" "If I got loose at a scary auction like this, I would run too and you could bet no one would catch me!" I then asked "is this crazy horse broke to ride?" They said "yes, he's a real nice riding horse, BUT he's crazy as sin, real head shy won't let you touch his face, if the wind blows he'll rip our arms off, again lady, YOU DO NOT WANT THIS HORSE!"
*eyeroll* Like I stated, kill buyers don't care what's wrong with the horse, they are in it to make a buck just like most everyone in the horse industry. If they think they can sell you a horse, they for sure aren't going to tell you how crazy the horse is or if the horse was lame in one leg. Whats even stranger is that she said she was only gone for 5 minutes and then came back. So all that "crazy" horse business went down in those 5 minutes without her seeing the ruckus or at least hearing about it?
Over all, there are just to many holes in this ladies story that make the post sound over dramatic and embellished. It reeks of someone just dying to be featured on FHotD. Supposedly, this rescue horse had been sold to a dressage/show barn for $5,000 and now that owner that paid $5,000 is saying she gave away the horse to a show jumping home even though he was lame and wasn't working in her program. Sorry, but people just don't give a $5,000 horse away, not even to a kill buyer.
To me her whole story sounds like she wanted to be seen as the great and nobel hero of this "crazy" horse that nobody wanted to take a chance on. And wanted to add in the dramatics of almost everything Cathy bashes on FHotD, kill buyer- CHECK. mistreated/misunderstood horse- CHECK. Auction drama- CHECK. Sale/buy back policy gone wrong- CHECK CHECK.
For now, until I check up more on this story, I choose to see the holes for what they are. And like most things, if there are holes, then something is probably not right.

292 comments:

Anonymous said...

I just had to go and read that blog post and found it interesting that up until this point, fugly herself posted five times in the comments. That's interesting, as it seems she hardly has anything to say in them.

~DK.

Anonymous said...

I just gotta know. Who was cnj doing damge control for today?
Fugs? Herself? Or her Johnie?

Anonymous said...

Cheree
Interesting name. Like cherry story to reclaim my readers?

bhm said...

Anonymous said...

I just gotta know. Who was cnj doing damge control for today?
Fugs? Herself? Or her Johnie?
--------------------

I don't think so. The post was too polite to be any of the above. Anon. actually apologized to me.

rockydq said...

Im gonna call bs on that story...

quotes from the blog
"because SHE KNEW he was going to auction and did not want to
be traced back to the horse...."
"My angel Rita, tracked down the last recorded trainer/owner..."


well, im confused...How did Cheree(the one who rescued the gelding from NH) track down Kelly as the last owner? Didn't Kelly sell the horse to Kathy? Then wouldn't Kathy have been the last owner?

Im just so sick of these auction sob stories...Yes, Im sure the auction is scary for lots of horses..SO WHAT? You cant tell me that the first time you wean a foal that the foal isnt a little "traumatized" but they get over it! And I have heard of some meat buyers buying before the sale however those have been LAME horses, not horses who were "mean".

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Cheree did say that it is common for horses to be "alley traded" at this sale, but implied that it has become common becuase there are almost no buyers there except the KBs and traders.

No answer on how the sale barn actually makes money by allowing this. All I can surmise is that the barn has adopted a minimum sale fee that must be paid for every horse unloaded there, irregardless of whether it is run through the sale or not. Otherwise, they would not make any money on these horses...and sale barns are in business to make money on the horses they run through their facilities. It does not behoove them to just let people run willy-nilly and move horses around in the back pens however they want to.

The whole part about everyone trying to talk her out of buying the horse? Yea...total BS!

The $5,000 sale price with a buy-back option just months before...BS! In this market, no one is stupid or crazy enough to dump a horse or even trade for another prospect when $5,000 is on the line and you could get it back with a phone call.

And Cheree, just because the horse HAS registration papers that the previous owner kept...does not mean they are yours. Sorry, that is not quite how things work. Although, did I hear somewhere the JC will reissue papers in your name if you can prove the horse you have is the one that goes with the papers? But honestly, who needs papers on a TB gelding? The only thing the lack of papers would prohibit him from doing is racing.

But ya gotta hand it to fugs for finding an appropriately emotional story to get the indignation going again in her comment section. It is a story with enough holes in it to drive a bus through, but carefully worded with just enough heart-wrenching, life-is-not-fair verbiage to blur the bleeding hearts vision. Gahhhh!!

Veronica said...

Whatever happened to your whole mantra of 'don't comment on what you don't know?' You are always posting about how FHOTD is commenting on a story she doesn't know the whole truth of-why are you doing the same? And further, why are you making a completely unsubstantiated accusation of which you have no proof nor evidence?

Becky said...

So y'all are for NOT alleviating the pain and suffering of horses, and this post helps your blog's cause how?

Is that what I am reading between the lines here? Because I can't really understand this post otherwise. It seems that you are stating that possibly embellished stories cancel out giving a horse a home.

Yes, I see that you have issues with some of the details of the story, but from what I have read from other posters here, details are arbitrary depending on your position. (I think I just possibly answered my own question there...)

I have to say, -and I fully realize that this will not change anything- that gang-banging and haranguing folks who are NOT FHOTD to the degree that y'all do on this blog, really seriously impacts your credibility to shed light on FHOTD's hypocrisy.

I'm almost with you, then you go off on folks who aren't FHOTD as if they are also responsible for the her blog, and I get as disgusted with y'all as I am with the other Fugly.

Don't bother, I get it, you hate FUGLY and her hypocritical ways, I got it. I just don't understand why you would post something that so clearly indicates that you allk also hate rescuing horses and the people who try to help them, because that's how this post is reading; that rescuing horses is a lame-ass thing to do, and the only way to justify it is to lie.

Believe me, I know you support slaughter, that's not the issue. Hell, I've eaten horse, it was fine.
But you're damaging your own credibility by trying to pick at FHOTD through this story, FYI.

But I'm getting the feeling y'all don't actually care what other people think of you. Which is rather ironic, since it's what you accuse FHOTD of.

Ok, I did answer my own questions.

Carry on.

seaview said...

Hey! Veronica and Becky commented; if only "Becky" were "Betty" then a couple of us could post as Archie and Jughead and have the whole gang here :-))

Becky said...

Hey seaview you can call me Betty, I liked those comics. Betty was cute!

Darcy Jayne said...

The problem with an unbelievable rescue story is that it diminishes the true ones. It's called "crying wolf". There's plenty of sadness and drama going on around horses without any need for someone to exaggerate for effect, and doing so just wears people out and numbs them to the real stories.

I saw the post and thought it just didn't add up - I skipped over the stuff going on at the auction because I don't have the knowledge to judge that. But the bit about sending a $5K horse with a buy-back contract off to auction put the whole thing into the "doesn't pass the sniff test" category.

Rogue said...

I tend to follow a personal mantra of, 'If I have no evidence, I cannot make a final judgement'. I wasn't there at the auction, I cannot know what is accurate, slightly incorrect, or completely fabricated/false.

Since no-one video-taped it, I never shall.

But I've been on the internet for 8 years. After a certain point, you can smell bullshit. Parts of that story just did not seem right. The fella' popped his nut, ran around crazy, and she didn't hear about it until after the fact? They sent him to slaughter for that?

Either the writer was gone more than five minutes, or it didn't happen that way. I am inclined to think that the most likely event is that she came back after the auction, haggled, and got him then.

But like I said. I wasn't there. I can't and won't know what's a lie and what's truth. But a lot of it sounds like a lie... regardless of whether it is or not.

Dena said...

I don't believe that anyone even implied that saving a horse is a lame ass thing to do.

Perhaps, you all have not been reading long enough, ANY of the message boards, to know that this type of story is a favorite to gain donation dollars.

I am not even remotely suggesting that Cheree is soliciting.
Unfortunately, the story with all it's Gee Mister embellishments and uncorroborating points makes people suspicious.

Most any horse purchased at New Holland or many other sales would in these days qualify as a rescue.

So Veronica, Becky, and Seaview, did you all come to make a relevant point or two?
Or, are you simply the new Fugly defense team?

I could care less which. I have been spoiling for a good fight all day.

But I can promise you ladies if you just came to stir the pot defending fugly you might very well find yourselves in it here.

And to Cheree? Good job giving a horse in need another chance.
If, you did.
No offense meant. Shouldn't be any taken.

seaview said...

Okay, I went back on my OWN word and checked out FHOTD. Cheree's story and the the story of "Dreamer" sounded so much like "Black Beauty" that I almost wet meself from laughing so hard.
While in the kill pen, "Dreamer" recognized a former beginner riding student from many years before and kept nickering to her until she finally went over and bought him. That is almost the EXACT ending of "Black Beauty"...hysterical:-)

Dena said...

BHM

Polite? Apologized? Am speechless.
Good for you...

seaview said...

Easy there, Dena...try reading some of my posts. I am NOT a fuglyite.
Actually, the Veronica/Becky comment was in jest; the names sounded fake to me (like the names from the old comic series; get it?). I'm not sure what in that post suggested that I was on the fugly defense team.
You can fight with whomever you please but you really need to settle down and read the posts more carefully before attacking.

seaview said...

Hello...Dena?
Have you taken the time to read some (or even one)of my posts?
I really enjoy this site so don't spoil it for me, okay?
Thanks:-)

Dena said...

Seaview
Did you miss the part about spoiling for a good fight?lol

And here I thought I was being subtle. ROL

Sorry. It has been a terrible day.
And I really don't want to take it out on any of the wrong people.

I have unresolved issues with the whole fugly thing.
As a former feature I am kind of entitled to or guaranteed them.

Never an excuse to take it out on the wrong person tho.:P

Dena said...

Seaview

To be honest when I broke my own rule and read there I saw your SN
there didn't I?
And I may have assumed.
I don't want to spoil it for anyone except the damage doers.
And I think I may be guilty as charged of not having read your posts.
And I type slow.:)

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Veronica-In case you have not actually read what people write here...let me help you with your comprehension...we ARE writing about what we know. Some of us here actually DO know how sale barns work and we see HUGE inconsistencies with the story that Cheree wrote vs. our own experiences. Want my resume on horse sales and killer buyers??

1)My dad was a horse trader and on again off again killer buyer. We always had horses coming and going from our place. The good ones got rode and resold as saddle horses. The not so good ones went to kill.

2)I spent plenty of time at horse sales with my dad while growing up. A lot of the time he would have me ride horses through the sale because people are generally willing to believe that little kids riding a horse through the sale meant they were safer. Hey, don't get pissed at me-my dad is the one who did it. I never put my daughter on anything I wasn't sure was safe for a kid. But the one's she rode always brought more money-as they should have.

3)A lot of our family friends are horse traders and killer buyers. I spent a lot of time around them, listening to them and learning. You would not believe the knowledge those guys had about horses.

4)I have worked at sale barns in SD, ND, NE and AZ. I have spent quite a bit of time around sale barns in the same states, plus CO, KS, WY and MN. They are ALL run the same. NONE of them allow OPEN alley trading/selling. It costs them money.(I conceded the fact that Cheree said this was acceptable at NH).

I think I have a pretty damn good idea of how things work at a sale barn and also a lot of insight into how traders and KBs think. Can you say the same thing?

I for one am sick and tired of every ring-ding, bleeding heart, ohhhh save the horses, yahoo who goes to a sale and spends a couple hundred bucks to bring one home and then expecting the "oh, aren't you special" treatment from everyone they tell the story too. I have been doing the same thing for 20 years and never ONCE looked at it as a "rescue". I took them home, cleaned them up, fed them, taught them some manners, fixed whatever problems they had-mental and physical and basically just turned them into productive members of the equine society. Then I sold them for A LOT of money to people I thought would give them a good home and enjoy them. Can I guarantee that those people did not spoil them or sell them to someone who ruined them and then sent them back off to the sale? NO, I cannot. Nor will I beat myself up about it. I did my part and made sure they got homes I was comfortable with at the time. You aught to try something similar on a few horses. It's character building!

And really think about this for a second...in this economy and in this horse market...do you realize the quality of horse you can buy for $5,000? Do YOU have an extra $5,000 to throw away? Which is literally what that barn owner did when she traded the horse for some hay rather than call the orginal owner back and say "Hey, this horse didn't work out, do you want him back and I'll take my $5,000". I just cannot imagine anyone doing such a stupid thing, when most everyone is financially hurting. Whose lying? The BO or the orginal owner?

Wanna know what else is a little suspect? The fact that Cheree and every single person who posted a comment saying they knew this person or had some "insight" into this story has blocked profiles(like yours) or newly created profiles? And they are all NEW to fugly. Wow!! What a coincidence.

Here's a list, maybe some other's here recognize them, as obviously I could not possibly remember everyone who has ever posted on fugly...
Steppy_86(says they are a former employee of the BO)

bevs_stuff

VA_Horse(this was created in Feb 09)

St. Francis

Cheree

Roze

Maybe the problem is that you are just not used to people truthfully calling it like they see it. A BS story is a BS story-I learned that at horse sales!!

seaview said...

No problem, Dena; nothing I haven't ever done-sometimes you're just in a fighting mood:-) LOL
Not sure if you saw my screen name; I haven't posted there (on her blog) in quite a while.
And yeah, you are definitely an injured party in all of her BS.
Sorry-it sucks when someone drags your name through the mud like she did yours:-(
Now, we've got to figure out how we can sneak a peek at her site occasionally without benefitting her...I had no idea that she was actually getting paid for that crap.
Anyway, you and I are good and I enjoy reading your posts!

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

I guess I should clarify that time-line. My dad has been dead for nearly 18 years. He did not trade horses the last few years of his life-his health was too poor.

We have not bought or sold killer horses in the last 20 years. But I did continue to buy loose horses to rehab/retrain and resell. I don't do that anymore, because the quality of buyers is so poor. Now if I raise something or buy something it is for myself and usually stays with us.

horspoor said...

When I was young, I worked for a guy that ran a dude string, ran killers, and bought and sold a lot of horses.

He used to bring in at least 5 from PLA every Sat. We then had to 'train' them to either be sold, or to be run back through the auction rideable. Was a very different world than I grew up in. I learned a lot. Some what not to do...lol I can still look at a horse and give you a damn close guess at weight.

Dena said...

BEC
Wow...Could we write a book or what?
You say MN my sometimes Dad is the one and only Big Ed/Chief.
The KBs having knowledge? Oh yeah.
Being put through the ring on everything and anything?
Been there done that.
Add to that all of the skepticism of the real *coughchokecough* rescuers.
I am in Simon and Tongen country.
They do a job.
And I will say this, if, the KBs I know tell me I don't want it?
I believe them.
Unless, I have a euthanasia fund.
And if, I want a particular horse out of the pens?
I get it. No fuss.
Alley Trading? So frowned on they have store bought signs saying, "NO ALLEY TRADING".
I must have in 26 years missed the part that says, "unless you want to".
Isn't that strange that our experiences as dealer brats are so similar?
Yet, so very different from almost every rescue story?
Well like I said we must have missed those parts in our extensive sale educations.

Dena said...

Oh and Gary Kolander is the one who sent me my very aged Amish team.
And a few others to go on to refuge.
And Gerald Pint who let me have the arab gelding with papers for $30 because he'd rather the good ones got homes.
I have yet to meet the KB who wants to kill good horses. Because I have yet to meet the KB who was not also a dealer.

cdncowgirl said...

Oh good grief even *I* could smell the BS wafting off that story. Which is exactly that a "story". Maybe Cheree should try selling it to Disney.

I *really* liked fugs quick defence when someone pointed out the geldings 20 starts on the track when the story says he didn't sell at the herd dispersal because he was an unstarted horse.

Anonymous said...

Brown-eyed Cowgirl?

You. Are. My. Hero.

You go, girl!

~DK

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Dena...No kidding. My family knows Gary!! Yes, small world indeed!

I trained for Roy Bjorklund in Tracy for 8 months. Man, was he a miserable old fart. Had a big gray stud named Macs Silver Spike. Man could he cut a cow. He was like 18(?)years old. We took pleasure prospects over to Simon's a couple of times. Oh boy, do you guys have some "traders"-Yeesh!!
They all used to run back and forth between Sturgis(I worked there) to Corsica and then on to Simon's. What a crew. Wouldn't touch anything they owned with a ten foot pole.

I tell ya though, if I was a trader, I could have made a fortune hauling trader horses back and forth between here and Alabama. Actually that was some of the last trips my dad made-hauling ranch type horses from SD to AL-selling them, buying show type horses there and hauling them up here to sell.
Holla Molla-that is the trick! If you cannot sell something in your area-haul them far away and watch the people go crazy for them. I never understood it. Still don't.

Cdn-Wow...was that a story or what? LOL I like how Cheree kept explaining things, but never really answered any questions.

You know-I never once asked where the horses I picked up came from. I just bought them because they "told" me I needed to.

snowponies said...

I am not even remotely suggesting that Cheree is soliciting.
--------------------------------------------------
Yeah, of course she is. She's just started a rescue and she has a Myspace page. I'm not sure how to post links here, but it is myspace.com/safehavenarabians. I'm sure that the full featured website, complete with paypal "Donate" buttons on every page and the heartwrenching tale of "Nic" is coming soon. Sorry to sound so cynical, but I have very mixed feelings on this obsession in the horse industry that is "rescue." Now before everybody jumps all over me, yes, I KNOW that there are many good, honest rescues run by hardworking, qualified, caring folks out there!

Anyways, I received this story last Wednesday from one of my yahoogroups. It apparantly originated from the AC4H yahoogroup and only contained the first part about the sale itself and nothing about the previous owners. It seemed quite overdramatic and sensational to me and I questioned many of the things that all of you have too. After today's blog post, I did some internet snooping. The email that I received had her full name (Cheree Esposito), farm name (Safe Haven Arabians aka Safe Haven Arabian Rescue) and address. In addition to the myspace page, she also has youtube videos under
foreverturk05. So she is apparantly a real person. All the myspace and youtube seem to be fairly recent - past month or two. On her myspace page she states that she and her husband started the rescue in Nov. 2008 and she has since saved 5 arabians and that these rescues have cost them $15,000.00 already (since last Nov., mind you). All I can say is WOW - that's 5K per month for 5 horses! So that may explain why the "Nic" story sounds so over the top as I think she must have a flair for creative writing. In her defense however, she does have lots of before and after pics of her arab rescues AND she has pics of this TB "Nic" both at NH and at her home. I'm glad that he found a nice home. Really I am. But I can't help but think about all the other people out there who are QUIETLY giving horses a nice home. But then again, according to her math, she'll be dropping at least a grand per month on him so I guess that makes it oh, so much more special. I have a feeling that she thinks that she has to sensationalize everything in order to "rally the troops" so to speak to "save our American horses" from slaughter. And tugging at the heartstrings always helps to loosen the pursestrings, right?

Yeah, the $5,000 buy back thing sure raised a red flag with me. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And the 5 minute complete chaos, crazy horse on the loose?? "Took 5 men, We had to rope him" uh, in a sale barn that has lots of.....pens, they had to rope him!!

One thing that really made me laugh is how Fugly totally let slide all the anthropomorphic (not sure of the spelling), "he knows that I saved his life" BS and Fugly herself engaged in the same later on in the post about the horse she helped rescue,
"You should have seen his face when I led him back into the sort of elegant barn he grew up in"....
What, was he impressed by the fine craftsmanship of the woodwork? Or was he calculating in his head how many carrots it would cost to build such an elegant barn? Please!

Great blog Wench. Keep up the good work.
BEC - your comments are great, so very well thought out and well presented. Wish I were able to articulate my thoughts that well.
Lots of great commenters with very interesting points of view. It's late and all the names escape me at this time.

GoLightly said...

Oh, the drama!
Oh, the humanity!
Try reality, it works well, too.

Using other people's kindness for their own gain.
The horses were sent to auction by PEOPLE, the KB is doing that which feeds his kids.
But the KB is the bad guy. Not really.

The story smells like sulfur. Bad.
Still have seen nothing re. vet scans. Good thing I didn't hold my breath.

I am for humane treatment of all animals. That includes humane death.

TexasPaint said...

Here in Texas (near Houston) KB certainly do not select horses before hand. Alley Trading is frowned upon, but so long as the auction house gets there no sale fee they will accept it. If not you get banned, for life. The most "tragic tale" I have when I rescued is I was 1 week past due with my second son and stayed till 1 am to rescue this cute little QH mare, under weight and maybe 14 hands. Then I paid $200 to keep her from going KB. So I was a very tired and very pregant cranky woman with a tired 3 year old daughter. The auction house owners wife remembers me to this day because we where both tired and very pregnant that night. LOL.

Dena said...

Snowponies
No way! Well there is a big surprise.
$15,000 for 5 Arabians? In 5 months.
That makes me so irritated. I know prices, (feed and services) vary from state to state, but come on.
As we keep everything for at least a year, we have longterm breakdowns on the math. Younger stock averages $100 per month to carry. Older stock a little more.
Severely emaciated can run $100 a week. Mostly because they have more medical and special feed costs upfront.
Now you do the math. We started in April of 07. We generally have close to 20 head. And here is where it gets tricky.
Some are ponies, some are yearlings.
Oh and we bought the farm to be able to do this.
General maintenance for well and electric are included in my listed cost.
And with the exception of a few surrenders, we have purchased most of the rescue horses from sale or feedlot.
It makes me angry when rescuers inflate the costs in their donation seeking.
Because it makes people think horses are much more expensive to care for than they may really be.
And I just don't do the please save the starving babies shock value photos.
I don't want to remember how they look when they come either.
Shock value and sensationalism just aren't my things.
Most all the other rescues seem to have that covered.
Truth in advertising is great. For educational purposes absolutely.
Send money now or baby so and so is going to die? Turns me off.
I just want to fix them. And with the economic changes I have had to get creative. Because the money either comes or it doesn't.
And as my hubby says I am real good at spending it on the horses.
My books are clean and self-explanatory. And 95% of the money spent has been ours.
$15,000 for 5 Arabians? Well isn't that just a kick in the pants.
Good work Snowponies

Anonymous said...

There are many heart wrenching stories about rescuing our equine friends, or the conditions seen at the auctions (which is why I could not attend one) But this one just seemed like it was over dramatized a bit. It was lacking four words at the beginning that would have been appropriate....

"Once Upon a Time"....


*SaddleSeater*

Dena said...

BEC Gary is a treat for me. He knows a lot.
One of my favorite sale barn protectors.
He got himself the bad cancer. Pancreatic.
That put me on my face.
My Dad and I don't get on. And Gary kind of picked up the slack.
The stories I could tell you.
He told one color breeder, "careful abusing the color bay to this girl it's her favorite".
He tells people I have one hell of an eye for a good horse.
First time I heard that I felt like I had graduated from Harvard with honors.
The rest of the dealers? It can be tough here.
The funny thing is none of those old hard cases were too thrilled with my Dad or how he treated me.
So I get a better than average deal from time to time.
It is a strange family to have isn't it BEC?
Equine version of Cheers.

Mikolaj said...

I read the story, and I remember reading about how the horse was sold for $5000 and the seed of doubt was placed. I kept re-reading it because I don't understand for even an instant why on earth someone would dump a $5000 on a kill buyer. If the lameness story was false, that means there was NOTHING wrong with this horse. Even if he wasn't cut out for competition, you could still get a good price for such a laid back and quiet pocket horse.

And...um...if she sold the horse directly to a kill buyer...why did he take it to auction...only to sell it to ANOTHER kill buyer? How does that make any sense? Did I read that wrong??

Anonymous said...

Ok DENA, We get it, You have a axe to grind with Cathy. You are starting to sound like a broken record.

Yes I am aware of why this board was started, to call FUGLY out. I enjoy reading the comments, but you are starting to ruin it for me and I am sure others.

This isn't your personal place to bitch about Cathy. Build a bridge and get over it. You are only harming yourself, you need to learn to let it go. Yes we are all aware that Cathy was a shit to you. You state this on a frequent basis.
I am thrilled that you have turned your life around, it isn't a easy thing to do. I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance :-)

Please could you back off the bitching rhetoric?

The best way to "get even" with Cathy is to prove her wrong!

So, GO FOR IT!

Dena said...

Dear Anon
2 references to fugly on a thread designed to call Cathy out on her bullsh*t?
Shoot me.
Second chances? I offer them plenty.
And thank you so much for the reference to turning my life around.
An axe to grind? If, you haven't walked or even stood in my shoes please don't even go there.
Ruining it for everyone? My very sincere apologies to...well...everyone.
Get over it and prove her wrong?
No offense but she never proved herself right.
So what do I have to prove?
The rhetoric?
Forgive me, I find people have a tendency to have conveniently short memories on occasion.
Have a really nice day Anon. As I am sure that your advice while self-serving was well meant.

Anonymous said...

LOL

Wow, Dena, way to go, you proved ANON wrong on that one.. Hey don't break your arm patting yourself on the back....

"I fely like I graduated from Harvard" Lol,

Poor Me, I'm abused.

So, what you are saying is the court records that were posted online weren't yours. Wow, I would sue, that is slander and libel.

Get a lawyer and go after her. You can also turn her in to the IRS, you were threatening that too, no?

CinammonSwirl said...

Snow Pony-

Nice catch. I mean, really? 5K a month per horse? I'd believe it more if she said each year per horse (and the horses all had some special needs.)

---

I think someone else said that the story's ending was reminiscent of Black Beauty. The greatest thing about that statement is that it was a story written by a person, showing how easy it is to make up the most loony things (only difference was we knew we were starting a story when reading BB)

Has anyone said anything on the commentary over at FBotD? I don't visit, so I miss out on any action there.

Dena said...

Another Dear Anon letter. lol
Give it a rest.
The IRS?
You bet...
Not that hard to do.
I despise abuse of rescue.
The rescue part is over the minute you take the animal out of the endangering situation.
Then it becomes rehabilitation.
Symantics yes.
Applicable? Yes.
Anything else you wished to complain about today?
I find that a lot of the posters do not have personal experience with what they are talking about.
Or maybe it sometimes just isn't expressed well.
I really only have one question?
Feel better Now?

CharlesCityCat said...

Anon:

Now lets not get into a pissing match with Dena, and bringing up her old court records will get you nothing but slammed as that is pathetic and will reflect badly on you.

BEC:

Thanks for all of your very informative posts. The info you have provided is helpful to me as I have zero knowledge about auctions.

I read the rescue story, while on the surface, a wonderful story, and one to bring a tear to the eye, it was really so over the top as to have very little credibility.


$15K for 5 Arabians in 3 months. Sheesh! Someone is either full of shit (sorry Wench) or just plain stupid.



As my friend Golightly would say:


To Nic, and a long happy life.

Dena said...

CCC
You frighten me. ROFLMAO
And don't forget to tell them about the time that I robbed that bank and singlehandedly saved all the horses from slaughter.
OMG!!!
Is it going to be that kind of day?
I knew it had come to the point where fhotd was boring everyone to tears.
But do they have to come here?
I have to go take pictures.
Hey when are you coming to pick up your puppy?

Dena said...

Oh and Anon? Daddy had me riding things that no one in their right mind should have been on.
Parking lot trading.
Unbroke, flippers, rank, and broken minded.
That is what I meant.
I am still laughing...

CharlesCityCat said...

Dena:

And lets not forget that after you robbed the bank, you took the proceeds from that heist, and saved every horse from slaughter and because you are thrifty you were able to use the rest of the $$ to single-handedly find and execute Osama with the remainder of your cash.

Girl, you are a busy bee aren't you?

Dena said...

Oh CCC...I have to come clean on that one.
I didn't execute him.
I am saving him for a special mission.
I was going to have him go after another white eyed devil.
And thanks Hon. Now I have to change my pants before heading to the barn.

To everyone I believe that there are a lot of heroes in this world for the animals.
I very much admire the quiet. I sometimes have to respect the loud.

Padraigin_WA said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roxmysox said...

Well I'll admit to only reading half the comments here ( I'm short on time) but I have to say that I have worked in auctions and no auctioneer would allow pre- auction sales. That's not to say that they don't happen - just that it's not allowed, if it were to happen then the item would be removed from the premises pronto to avoid the hassle that discovery would cause. Commissions and premiums sound like a lot to a casual observer but really they are not and every little counts. Anyone allowing this sort of trading to go on would be basically cutting his own throat - buyers and sellers can be barred for doing that. Auctioneers in general take a really dim view of anyone using their venue as a showroom.

horspoor said...

I am in the wrong business. Maybe I should rescue and board horses. I wouldn't have to get on anymore nutjobs. Oh, I'd have to deal with nutjob people though. Guess I'd rather the nutjob horses, at least they're honest about their issues.

But man. $15,000 for 5 arabs over three months. Boy do I have a deal for you, I'll take care of them for the low low cost of $10,000. Okay, I'll do the year for $15,000...see how magnanamus I am.

roanhorse said...

Such drama!!! File it under bullshit and move on.

CowgirlUp said...

I brought home a 17 hand Tennessee Walker gelding seriously underweight. Even a horse that size didn't cost me that much to feed. A little beet pulp, a little grain and all the hay he could eat cost me about $80.00 per month. He gained weight nicely without me spending a small fortune. He was here for from mid August until the beginning of January. I found him a new home, yes I sold him, for a whopping $400.00. Pretty sure I didn't get back what I put into him, but I was pretty comfortable with the home he went to.

horspoor said...

CowgirlUp,
I take in a couple of horses like that a year. I just figure I lose money on all of them. But making money wasn't the point, right? They're with me long enough, while feeding them back up, and working with them to get a really good idea what they're really like.

I can then pretty much pick and choose who they go to. I either give them away, trade for something I want or need, or sell them cheap enough that they go to the person I want. I never advertise, it's only by word of mouth, and I always do a buy back clause.

Anonymous said...

horsepoor and that makes you unique exactly how?
because according to your implied slams rescues don't ride or train or train.
whatever.

horspoor said...

anonymous,

I didn't say it made me unique. Ya moron. I was just stating what I did. I didn't realize we were only allowed to post our unique qualities.

Pick it with someone else. I'm not in the mood for your juvenile crap.

Anonymous said...

Filed under bullshit.

horspoor said...

I didn't have any implied slams, by the way. Guilty conscience on your part, perhaps? Resemble your statement, much?

Anonymous said...

elitist snobbery at its finest.
why would anyone who doesn't even own a horse have a guilty conscious.
Aren't your kind better suited to FHoTD?
moving on.

Anonymous said...

Let's not feed the fug-anon troll with vile language and nasty attitudes, please. All they're trying to do is bait us into dropping ourselves down to their level so they can point their fingers at us later and say "See! They're not better than what they "claim" us to be!!!oneeleventyapplesauce" Best to just ignore them, as ignoring trolls is like sunlight to them, it will turn them to stone.

~DK

GoLightly said...

Wow, anonymous, having a bad day?

Stay away from the, well, whatever.

"Elitist snobbery" from horspoor??
That is an oxymoron.

Doesn't happen.

Look the word up, it's good for you.
Might open some doors in your head. They seem to be closed.

horspoor said...

I actually do go to FHoTD. Your point?

It's interesting that someone that doesn't have the stones to post with a name, or a profile can spew utter bullshit. Oh, I know it's because you feel safe behind you anonymity.

You don't own a horse? What you just like picking it with people that do? Do you ride? Do you donate or voluteer at rescues? What is your claim to fame? What makes you so unique?

What makes you such a faunt of knowledge and truth?

Like I said from the beginning, I am not in the mood for this. Pick on someone else. There's gotta be someone here spoiling for a fight.

blueheron said...

I like folks who tell it like it is, without the sophistication of being anonymous. lol.

There are some who need to hide their identity, for fear of retribution in real-time.

Gotta wonder what some Anon's are hiding from?

horspoor said...

Thanks Golighty. lol I'd kind of like to be an elitist snob. How fun would that be. lol

Love the sohpistication remark BH.

horspoor said...

holy cow, I need to slow down, see the typos.

Oh, wait. No really I thought that is how those words were spelt. lmao.

CharlesCityCat said...

Anon:

"don't ride or train or train"

Whatever are you talking about? Please proof read and btw, punctuation and and capitalization are you friends.

From the Queen of Elitism.

horspoor said...

Hey, I gotta go ride.

Anonymous....save up your vile for the next time I post. It will give you some time to get your thoughts together.

AlmightyMarshmellow said...

Anon:

Elitist snobbery? HP? The?

I have the feeling that you were just trying to start a fight for shits and giggles there. Grow a pair, please.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

DK is absolutely right.

But since I have a big mouth and lots of opinions...I cannot resist making one point;

The difference between individuals who buy horses out of bad situations and spend their OWN money and time fixing them up, do it because it is something they enjoy. It gives us a sense of accomplishment and very often stretches our knowledge. Each individual is a learning experience in feeding programs, veterinary knowledge and training skills. Something we would not get if we simply stuck to horses that we have raised or had for a long time. And if we chose to re-sell those horses or give them away-the whole point is to make sure that we are placing them with responsible people who will take care of them and enjoy them. That gives us the opportunity to find another one who might benefit.

RESCUES on the other hand, if they take public donations should be held to a higher standard simply because they are playing with other people's money. It is not enough that they "rescue" something. They need to have a purpose. Are they rescuing young stuff, old stuff, OTTB's, Arabs, etc, etc. Of course that should not limit them if they decide they have the room and can handle the responsibility of what THAT individual needs. And they need to be able to draw the line. A 30 year old horse with issues that cost two to three times as much to take care of? A raving lunatic that is dangerous to handle? A permanently crippled foal? If you are going to spend other people's money on maintaining horses because you love them-you also need to be balanced enough to handle the responsibility that there are tens of thousands of horses out there that are just as deserving and neeed a chance too. It's not getting rid of the garbage, it's the painful reality of life...and death.

Veronica said...

Honestly I don't have the effort nor the need to argue with all of you on here. But I would like to let you know Veronica is my real name, that I have no idea about profiles or whatever-I just use my Gmail name/account for here, through google. My Gmail name is Veronica, so I guess that's what it does on here. I am not a Fuglyite, nor am I one of those before who thinks she is god. The reason why i read this blog is to see the other side of the story, and make my opinions based on both sides. I have been reading the fugly blog for a good long, long time though. I am not new to all of this.

Anonymous said...

Veronica's right about using her gmail. Google bought blogger (Eesh, what Hasn't Google bought?) and I usually keep my gmail open in another tab and that's why I'm just too lazy to sign out of whatever account I happen to be on, then sign back in to make a post.

And I agree with BEC again about the ethics of rescue and those who do it out of pocket. You've got to have standards, you've got to have a game plan and if you do it for the glory, well, don't forget, pride goes before a fall.

~DK

secondwindacres said...

<---- panting...late to the party, but I'm here.

Where do you guys need me?? :) Who is elitist?? Whatever is Dena doing now? Good Lord, we need two sandboxes over here. :)

Isn't this supposed to be the softer, gentler site? Or is it only softer and gentler to a select few? Hmmm, seems like I've been to a site like that before... :) Let's hug and make up.

Dena said...

SWA
I missed it too. Where were these people yesterday?
When I was spoiling for a good fight.

I am in a very good mood today though.

And I have friends that are elitist snobs? Who knew.
Blow it off HP I can't even tell if it is the same one who came gunning for me.
You don't suppose they breed do you?
I mean trolls.

BEC You nailed it again. Viable and quality are 2 very important things to consider. Always.
Especially when there are so many others.
I think a lot of people choose to support certain rescues based on similar beliefs about the animals being saved.
And some people don't do their research. And some people do. And when the two parties come together watch out.
And I think a lot of people have unfortunately seen rescue as a way to support their horse habit and other things that don't fit the equation.

Anyway we went outside and took more pictures. It was like 24 degrees and after this winter that almost seems tropic.
You know where to find them.

Hey Mel Good to see you.

BH Should I be sad that I am not sophisticated? I mean everyone knows who I am and I don't even have a catchy screen name or anything.

HP You should have used the "Don't teach your grandmother how to suck eggs" line.
I love that one.
You snob you.

DressageInJeans said...

Haha. I posted that it sounded like a bad SHARK story on how bad the rodeo is... no one bashed me yet. Probably because it's true.
God I HATE that mushy shit. 'He looked right at me for 30 seconds and I knew he had to go home with me!!!' Really? If he had looked at you for 30 seconds and his leg had been snapped in half, were you still taking him home?

Lol.

Pipkin said...

Ok, I recognize many of you from the FHOTD blog. And you are acting JUST LIKE her followers whom you constantly dis.

You don't like sob stories? Fine, why mash this lady for making one? Black Beauty WAS fiction, but it changed social views on the abuse of animals. Did it totally anthropomorphize animals just like Parelli does? SURE.

But again, THIS blog is about FHOTD's POSTER, not it's subjects. You are just showing that because someone wrote a story (possibly fiction, if you weren't there you'll never know) that was featured on FHOTD you'll bash it if it positively reflects on FHOTD, and support it if its bashed on FHOTD.

Um, contrary anyone?

I guess my point, after all that blah blah, is this:

Pretty unclassy post today, Wench, you are indeed falling to the evil one's level (look! they put it on the web! let's bash coz it's out there and we can!)

Ah, but perhaps you can't see the forest for the trees? Bashing because it's ON the website you hate is justification?

yeah, I know, the ends justify the means, innocent people get hurt because of my need to out Cathy, well too damn bad. little people who are proud of their horses and achievments should be outed, right? No matter the cost?

Because anyone who likes FHOTD is fair game. You go girl!

Anonymous said...

Looks like no one is safe today.
Pipkins care to read up?
Cheree is running a rescue.
Or she calls it that.
She say 5 Arabs have cost her $15,000 in 5 months to save.
$5,000 a month.
Safe Haven something. Complete with myspace page.

Anonymous said...

Im officially ticked that she keeps posting all these dang sad poor auction reports. I went to a registered horse sale in Paris, Ky. I asked before hand if she wanted a report and she said yes. There were over 400 horses there and not 1 kill buyer. Horses sold pretty dang good compared to the crap she posts. Why does she only want to show the bad? Why cant she show the one GOOD report??? Fuel to the flames? A good 400 horse auction with all the horses going to families and dealers doesnt support her rescue donations or what?

Pipkin said...

So what? You're outing rescues?

I would totally get it if you guys all said "FHOTD is being taken by a hoarder! har har! The Irony, the Irony!" Because who doesn't love irony?

but you're not. You're BEING FHOTD, "she's spending way too much to be a rescue!" Well maybe she's a twit, a rich, idiotic twit. Or maybe she's a hoarder, or a braggart, or an alien or possibly the most annoying person on the planet, but why act like FHOTD about it? One of the reasons I read this blog is to get PERSPECTIVE. And I thought I'd let the poster know, she lost it on this one.

But I know, you're having a good time and visiting, so what harm, really?

Pipkin said...

Anon directly above, me, you have a good point, that is the sort of info I come here to get. Not another lesson in personal bashing. I can get that in spades with fun nasty lingo on FHOTD.

Thank you Anon above me for telling me something useful.

oldgraymare said...

I don't think it's the same. The story really doesn't add up. No one here said the author is a terrible person to attack or presented contact information to ensure lots of hate mail, name calling and worse. Things don't sound right, but here it doesn't mean a lynching is in order, as would've been the case on Fugly's blog.

Pipkin said...

To wit:

Dena said:
"$15,000 for 5 Arabians? In 5 months.
That makes me so irritated. I know prices, (feed and services) vary from state to state, but come on."

No evidence from Dena of info regarding how much prices may vary, meds or vet services that may have taken up some dinero, or new fences that had to be installed to keep horses apart. Gosh, this sounds just like CNJ's banwagon jumping!

Dena is also implying anyone who pays significantly more than Dena (or a person named Cathy on another blog) is just plain lying and cheating. Pot, meet Kettle.

Snowponies said: (re: this being a faux rescue soliciting donations)
"Yeah, of course she is. She's just started a rescue and she has a Myspace page. I'm not sure how to post links here, but it is myspace.com/safehavenarabians. I'm sure that the full featured website, complete with paypal "Donate" buttons on every page and the heart-wrenching tale of "Nic" *is coming soon* (Emphasis added by me but no actual proof by snowponies)...In addition to the myspace page, she also has youtube videos under foreverturk05."

Gee, oldgraymare, that looks an awful lot like personal info posted so people can go have a lookie-loo and bash her if they wanted to....

Of course, no one is going to MAKE you do it, so we're that much better. But if you did it on HER site, well, we're not responsible for the fringe folks, right?

Ooh, also, FWOTD didn't post that, some mad bonkers commenter did, and FWOTD isn't responsible for her...

Look, I'm not saying that hypocrites don't need to be outed, that's exactly why I'm happy to read this blog; but FWOTD just became FHOTD, in making it open bashing season on folks we don't know about based on what they put on the internet.

Oh the irony!

Well, since I love irony, I guess I should shut up now, or I'll lose my entertainment for the evening!

Also, I LIKE that folks here aren't all rabid dogs, and I suspect I'd enjoy meeting each and everyone of you in person, (especially you, Golightly!)no exceptions. But if you are going to take the high road, you really truly have to take it, not just give it lip service.

I know, because I live on that road, and man, some days it totally sucks!

GoLightly said...

Pipkin!
"(especially you, Golightly!)"

But, but, I'm annoying, and ridiculous. Frequently wrong, and willing to concede, positively conciliatorily, painfully..
well, you know.
Jeeesh.
I am so confused, but thanks.
Wow.
Thanks. I'd like to meet many of the people I've met through this bloogy thing.

I'm on the horses' side, right in the middle of here.
Or there.
LOL, word verification is
inflater

I do NOT, (do too) do NOT:)

Horse Rescue is very, very emotional, as two words put together often are. I feel badly for the kind-hearted, well-meanings..

Right, people like me.
Right.
To Horses, and to kindness.

CharlesCityCat said...

Geez Go:

Not only did you have a troll or two on your blog, now you have a fan.

There will be no living with you now!!!

Hey, have a good night girl. BTW, my brother got to come home tonight.

seaview said...

Cinn-that was me talking about Black Beauty; both of those rescue stories (and I do mean stories lol)ended just like BB. Hilarious :-)

Wenchster-any way to keep people from signing on anonymously? Maybe that would cut down on the number of gutter-snipes that wander over just to attack non-FHOTD people on this board.
It's kind of cowardly to post as "anonymous" if you're just coming over to attack Wenchster or Dena or FWOTD in general; at least have the balls to identify yourself.

Pipkin said...

Golightly, methinks thou doth protest too much!

Yeah, I like you, you seem to be able to keep the horsies in perspective. Now, what I would like with you, is a nice pot of tea, some lovely scones and a cozy little discussion on nunchal ligaments, thoracic vertebra and what is (or is not) under those kilts!

ZooKeeper said...

Does it bother anyone else that the rescuingfaith gal makes a point of very pointedly pointing to her blog every chance she gets...where THERE she asks for donations? For one horse? I dun think so.

It really eats at my craw.

I took in a skinney mare last year who eats 3 times what my gelding does and we are just now getting her weight up. I've never mentioned her...let alone asked folks for money to help feed her! When I brought her home I accepted responsibility for her care.

If you can't feed it...don't bring it home!

zk

Chris said...

horspoor said...

CowgirlUp,
I take in a couple of horses like that a year. I just figure I lose money on all of them. But making money wasn't the point, right? They're with me long enough, while feeding them back up, and working with them to get a really good idea what they're really like.

I can then pretty much pick and choose who they go to. I either give them away, trade for something I want or need, or sell them cheap enough that they go to the person I want. I never advertise, it's only by word of mouth, and I always do a buy back clause.


I took in 5 last year. Three were Percherons and two of those were bred! I got my first experience in not only seeing a foal born, but helping to deliver it, it was pretty cool. Nothing I really want to do again, but an awesome experience nonetheless. I gave two away and sold the other three, well five I guess with the foals. I didn't make anything on them, didn't even break even, but that wasn't the purpose as it sounds like you know all to well:-) We have the room and had the funds at the time to do it. I do enjoy seeing the progress they make, you're right about doing it just because it gives you a good feeling to do it.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Zookeeper....ROFLMAO!!!

I've never gone to that blog or any of the hundreds(it seems)that people start when they "rescue" a horse...one horse..from a sale or a bad situation. It's the new "in" thing that is for sure.

I thought I was just being cynical!

CowgirlUp said...

Blogger Chris said...

horspoor said...

CowgirlUp,
I take in a couple of horses like that a year. I just figure I lose money on all of them. But making money wasn't the point, right? They're with me long enough, while feeding them back up, and working with them to get a really good idea what they're really like.

I can then pretty much pick and choose who they go to. I either give them away, trade for something I want or need, or sell them cheap enough that they go to the person I want. I never advertise, it's only by word of mouth, and I always do a buy back clause.


I took in 5 last year. Three were Percherons and two of those were bred! I got my first experience in not only seeing a foal born, but helping to deliver it, it was pretty cool. Nothing I really want to do again, but an awesome experience nonetheless. I gave two away and sold the other three, well five I guess with the foals. I didn't make anything on them, didn't even break even, but that wasn't the purpose as it sounds like you know all to well:-) We have the room and had the funds at the time to do it. I do enjoy seeing the progress they make, you're right about doing it just because it gives you a good feeling to do it.



So that was me commenting there. My kid apparently signed me out and himself in, rotten kid anyway!

GoLightly said...

Pipkin
LOL!

I'll never tell. Kilts are a secret for Scots. Look at your own discretion. Och, Aye!

CCC, great news, and many hugs to you, as always.
sorry for the soft squishy, I learned that from SecondWind.
She's amazing, too.

Pipkin said...

Golightly, you also have what appears to be a Corgi in your avatar. As someone who covertly covets corgis, and the Welshmen they work with, yes, tea please.

Xix said...

I'm always suspicious of over-dramatised stories, and not just because I suspect deceit. The truth is that human memory is just not as reliable as we wish it was. Maybe this 'Cheree' really does remember the story as it was written - but that doesn't mean that it actually went down that way. It does seem to me, though, that by posting this story, Cathy is betraying her usually non-anthropomorphic stance.

More than that though, much more; this story irritated me because it contains the same silly, over-emotional attacking of kill-buyers as, ooh, every single other time they are mentioned on the Fugly blog. Seriously, every time someone so much as breathes the term 'kill-buyer' not only does Cathy drop a brick, so do all the fuglyites. Hey, guys, there's a pet shop near me that keeps live baby rats to kill and sell as snake food. Now, I have a rat at the moment, and I've been keeping them on and off for years. Personally? I think they're wonderful animals, intelligent, sweet and sociable. Do I think the people who own the pet shop are murderers? No. Snakes need to eat. I guess that pretty much sums up my attitude to kill-buyers at horse auctions. People need money for quality of life, they'll make it any way they can: just like the owner of a snake can justify the death of rat kittens to feed their pet (feeding live rats to snakes being illegal here in the UK,) so kill-buyers can justify the death of horses to feed themselves and their family. If you have a problem with horses being sold for meat, well, that's the source of the problem, not the people who make a living off it. Like weeds in the garden, you have to destroy the root, not the flowers - and bitching at all those dandelions does no good!

Ok, I'm quite drunk (read: very drunk,) so I realise that all of that might not make much sense. But I guess what annoys me, regardless of the story's veracity, is the painting of kill-buyers as a bunch of sociopaths. Sometimes people have different values in life - what's important to me is not necessarily important to another person. Some people see horses like dogs, others like cows, if that makes sense. Someone who makes money selling horses for meat is not necessarily a bad person, an indiscriminate liar or lacking in all empathy. The depiction of the kill-buyers in today's rescue story was a major red flag for me, marking that the telling of this particular tale has already been heavily coloured by emotion, and therefore all descriptive detail should be viewed as suspect until independent, reliable conformation presents itself.

Xix said...

Also, Pipkin? I'm with you on the corgi's and the Welshmen. I love a mountainous accent, me :D

Pipkin said...

Xix, I have two words for you: mmmm, mmm!

Duske Falling said...

CCC: Were you the one who had the dog you guys found under weight, but had to take it to the shelter for a few days to make sure no one was looking for it?

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Xix...Your drunk and you make perfect sense-Wow, that makes the ranters and ramblers look even worse. LOL!!

Cheers...to enjoying a Saturday night...it is still night where you are isn't it??

secondwindacres said...

Viable and quality are 2 very important things to consider.
=======
I think that's so important for rescues too. There are just too many. Now, since I'm not a rescue I do things a little differently. :) I can afford to...I don't ask for money for donations or need committed volunteers to run my farm or buy/upgrade so that I can rehab, train and rehome. So, I can indulge my soft and squishy weakness. The two rescues we have (one is an actual rescue the other is just an upgrade) probably wouldn't have made the grade if quality/future use needed to be a consideration. But the sadness of their situation(s) was just too much for me to bear, even though one of them will probably be a pasture ornament/pony ride for the grandchild for the rest of his life. He's a conformational mess. :) But he's such a love. A really fun horse to have around. That has value too. :)

oldgraymare said...

Pipkin said: Gee, oldgraymare, that looks an awful lot like personal info posted so people can go have a lookie-loo and bash her if they wanted to....

Um, where on the original post does it have info on the author? Links, email address, pictures, web page etc. Where was the ridicule, mocking, name calling and bashing? Where? I saw it to be taking to task a story that was related on another blog that didn't ring true. Of course anyone can look at or up anyone or anything that is on the internet. But as I saw it, the issue was with the story itself, as well as the emotional rescue rhetoric.

Padraigin_WA said...

Go Lightly, now when my family lived in Dunedin, NZ, we moseyed on over to the bungee jumping-off- a-bridge in the Queenstown area . Wouldn't you know, several members of a pipe band from Scotland jumped in their kilts... (I learned what they *don't* wear underneath...)
-sorry, but I'm getting punchy here and better hit the hay.
Goodnight all.

snowponies said...

PipKin
Mad, bonkers commenter here (hey I got called an asshat on the rodeo youtube comments - yours is much more original, I lke it!):

I never said that this woman, Cheree, who rescued the horse in this story and runs the Safe Haven Arabians was a "faux" rescue. I said that she was indeed soliciting donations on her Myspace page (go take a look for yourself - myspace.com/safehavenarabians) and that yes, I am, at times,somewhat cynical about "rescue" in general, but also find the subject quite fascinating.
Wenchsters post questioned the validity of the whole NH/Nic story because it just sounded fishy and quite overy dramatic. It just seemed a little too much like it was "made" for FHotD. All the edge of your seat anguish, the warm and fuzzy storybook outcome and cliches, the "rest of the story" aftermath, finally ending with the climactic "who done it" outting. So, people were wondering - Did this story really happen as written? Why doesn't it add up? And does Cheree exist? As I stated in my previous post, I had received this story last Wednesday in a yahoogroups email. I've since received it again from another yahoogroup so apparantly it is making the rounds across the www. It appears to have originated from the AC4H yahoogroup, which I would think has a large membership. So it was not a private email sent only to me. In the emails, this woman, Cheree, lists her full name, her farm name and her full address. If you don't want this information to make it's way across the universe then you DO NOT list it in a yahoogroup email. Just by googling this information, I came up with the Myspace and youtube info, among other things. Both of these are PUBLIC sites. If you don't want people to find or view them, then you do not put things on public sites. I'm pretty sure that the myspace page could be set to private, her page is NOT. I'm not sure about youtube.
So, I answered the question that yes, Cheree does exist, she has a rescue, asks for donations, has before and after pics and video of horses she has rescued and gave the supporting proof that I had easily found in minutes. I DID NOT list her home address (which was in the emails) as I thought that unnecessary. And yes, I do not have proof that she is launching a web site, sorry but that was my cynicism shining through. It was a "this is what I think, but go look for yourself and form your own opinion" sort of thing. Since I myself have never even considered contacting anyone that FHotD has "featured" to "bash" or whatever, I guess I didn't see that it might be taken that way. I do apologize as that was never my intention at all. I just thought that it would give some insight (especially the myspace page)into her story and help generate other perspectives, be they positive or negative and not just my take on it. Always good to get different perspectives. I like hearing/discussing different points of view And IMO, being negative or critical of someone/thing is not automatically "bashing" or "bullying". I might criticize or question someones actions, but I probably won't post comments calling them a F***tard or such, make fun of their appearance, the type of house they live in nor say things like I hope they get dragged by their horse and taken out of the gene pool. Sorry if you thought that I was urging anyone to do anything of the sort.
The stories of my powers of persuasion are greatly exaggerated ;)

And to clarify, it was $15,000 in approx 3 mos. (she started the rescue in Nov. 2008 and something on the myspace page led me to believe the page was created in Jan. or so.) And since there was no mention of any major medical issues, they're not being boarded out etc. for any of the 5 horses, to me, that sounds a bit excessive even if she lived in the hoityest toityest of suburbias, which I don't believe is the case. Sorry, but it's the amount and just the way it's worded on her site that I disagree with. It just irritates me when people get all gushy emotional and starry eyed to "save horses" and then say "OMG, I've had to spend all this money out of my own pocket!" Well then - don't take on 5 horses, maybe just do 1 at a time.
Anyways, thanks for pointing out how that looked.

PS I live at the bottom of a hill - must be that lower road you were talking about. Hey, at least I don't have to suffer nosebleeds - sorry, couldn't resist:)

GoLightly said...

Now, Pipkin, lass.
I'yam verry sorry to disappoint ya, but that darlin', smilin' mutt in my avatar, is nowt a wee corgi.
Nice guess, tho'.

Ya have to read my blog, for what that little darlin' may be. Hacktually can't remember if I mention her breeding. Heck, read it anyway.
My commenters are hilarious, even when I give them shite for being kookier than me.

Rusty was a rescue, don't ya know.
I don't like to mention her probable lineage. Plus, as she is now deceased, as of Nov. 2004, I don't want to be slandering her fine name. Which is Rusty, btw.
Don't want my dogs' breed going the way of the popular breeds, t'poor darlins'.
I love a corgi. Rusty wasn't a corgi.

Nice to be chattin' with ya..

Dena said...

SWA
You know I like your horse. I meant quality of life.
Not like we only save non-fugly horses. Jeesh.
My bad. And I don't think your guy is fugly. So there.

Pipkin
Yeah, I have a problem with $5,000 per month on 5 horses.
As in it just doesn't strike me as real.
I also have a problem with single breed rescues. That is just me.
As in "I" have a problem with that.
I personally have a preference for quarterhorse performance stock.
It gave me a giggle to pull it out of the pens, train it and say, HA!
But when people started calling because they needed help, I didn't think it was right to say,"Oh I'm sorry we only do quarterhorses".
Again, that is just me.
And then, I met my old crew, and I was just screwed.
I think they might be arab/standardbred and 34+. Amish team.
I declared them permanent residents. Because they are my apology to every horse I turned my head from in need based on breed.
The thing is, when someone comes along and says look at me. Look what I did. People are going to look. And talk.
I don't think I bashed anyone. It wasn't my intent.
I believe I said,"well, isn't that a kick in the pants".
Because that is exactly how it felt, to me.

CharlesCityCat said...

Duske Falling:

Yes, that was me.

AbbyAugustArabian said...

Hey,
I was wondering if any of you could help me price a horse? If you can, please e-mail me @ merlinteam4ever@hotmail.com. Please put Bossman in the subject bar.

Thank you,
Abby

Dena said...

Oh and one other thing. I do have a problem with, hay and shavings, costing more in the quaratine barn than, they do in the regular barn.

You know let's just say it cost you $500 a month to board a horse.
Another $200 to have the farrier out. $1000 for the vet.
That is $1700 a month. Wow. Kind of exhorbitant?
Now bring it down to say $200 for board, $100 for farrier, and $500 for the vet. That is $800.
But every month? Probably not.
The math was sucker math.
And I do take exception to sucker math.
But again, THAT is just me.

seaview said...

Once again breaking my promise to myself, I looked at FHOTD today. *head desk*
The beginning entry is that in today's economy, no one should be breeding any horses unless they are CERTAIN they can afford to keep them for an indefinite length of time. Certainly sound advice but this is coming from a woman who is unemployed yet has a colt that she obviously does not plan to geld. I really wanted to ask her if she was planning to apply that bit of advice to herself and have the VLC gelded; I know I need to grow a pair and post it but I don't want the fugly-ites stalking me all over the internet LOL...maybe someone else has the cojones to post it :-)
After that small paragraph, she quickly jumped into an auction list; most likely to divert attention from that little snippet of hypocrisy.

Maddy said...

This story provides a good example of why I feel so ambivalent about the fugly blog. I definitely miss the less snarky posts from a year or so ago.

Even though the story sounds embellished, it is at the very least a feel good story. However, readers just can't leave it at that, they need to find a scapegoat to draw and quarter.

Enter Kathi, the owner of the dressage school who supposedly sold the horse to the kill buyer. Even in the original story the writer does not know how the horse ended up at the kill buyer. But that doesn't matter, everyone starts jumping all over her and saying they are going to forward the story to as many people as they can in the area.

I'm sorry, but after reading the story and the FHOTD comments, there is just no way anyone can figure out the truth in that story, unless they were actually involved. Why would you go out of your way to contact that riding school owner and/or malign her business to people in the area?

Of course Fugly says that she doesn't buy Kathi's side of the story. Even though she doesn't have any proof either way.

Just another example of a cutesy feel good story turning into another gang bang based on flimsy evidence. It's such a shame considering I think Cathy has the dedication to actually produce a productive blog.

trainingemmy said...

Maddy: Not only is the ganging up based on the flimsiest of evidence, but many of the posters are engaging in outright libel in their accusations against this dressage instructor, suggesting that she is engaged in illegal behavior and working to disparage her reputation. I posted a warning to one of the women, but of course, it falls on deaf ears/blind eyes.

Cathy herself runs the risk of being named in a libel suit one of these days. For example, in this case she has no proof that this woman was involved, and if it can be proven that Cathy posted the information (including the woman's name) in an attempt to intentionally cause harm, she could lose a libel suit.

As for Cathy not having a job, I still have not seen definitive proof that she doesn't have one. Anyone care to provide that proof? I have used Google as one anonymous poster suggested, but although it provides some suggestion that Cathy isn't working, I can confirm that she isn't.

The Wenchster said...

Seaview said...
Wenchster-any way to keep people from signing on anonymously? Maybe that would cut down on the number of gutter-snipes that wander over just to attack non-FHOTD people on this board.
It's kind of cowardly to post as "anonymous" if you're just coming over to attack Wenchster or Dena or FWOTD in general; at least have the balls to identify yourself.


If everyone thinks that's a good idea then I will take off that option. I only allowed it because I figured a few people would like to voice their 2 cents without fear of persecution or being stalked on the internet or getting verbal whiplash should they say something that other's here don't agree with or someone on another blog.
If everyone thinks that switching this option off a good idea just say so and it will be done.

Anonymous said...

Wenchester-
Your blog, your call. But be aware that by disabling your anonymous capabilites, you will cut off a great source of some of your latest finds.
You-tube's of Fugs riding. Her website design business. CnJ's pathetic shot at business. Those were anon postings, not any sleuthing outed by regulars.
Not only are some not willing to risk exposure and the wrath of the fuglys, some maybe too close personally and have further information that may prove to be not only interesting, may show the lengths that Cathy will go to to do "anything" to care for her horses.

secondwindacres said...

Dena,

I was agreeing with you all the way. :) I was just bragging a bit about how I can choose to do it differently because I don't have the donators to answer to. I'm very lucky and can indulge my whims if I so choose and save a poor soul that would never make it in a rescue because the money would be better spent on a better horse.

I know you like my horses. But, really...I have a couple that are more than fugly. :) They are train wrecks. :) But, being horse lovers we loves 'em all anyway, don't we? I know that you passionately love all of yours. That is apparent in all of your posts.

I wish we could save them all. It's a pipe dream, to be sure, but I can still wish it.

seaview said...

^^^anonymous' point is a good one-I saw it just as I was previewing my post.
trainingemmy-I'll admit to just assuming that what I had read about Cathy's employment (or lack thereof)was true. That's one of the issues many of us have with Cathy:that she uses flimsy or unsubstantiated information and writes as though it were true and I just did the same thing! Sorry about that :-(

Wenchster-sometimes I use anon because I cannot get onto this board unless I re-register every time I want to post ( any tips on what I'm doing wrong are appreciated:-)). I do sign my SN at the bottom of the comment and know others do that also. So, while I hate to lose the convenience of the anon. feature, I do think it may cut down on some of the negative post and run people do under the anonymous tag.

Duske Falling said...

CCC:

Please tell me things went well! I never did catch what had happened to the end of that.

Xix said...

As the person above me said - your blog, your call, Wench. But I agree with Anon - having the ability to comment anonymously encourages people to comment without fear of social reprisal. More than that, though, I don't necessarily agree that using an anonymous handle is, say, cowardly or dishonest. There are many reasons why one would want to comment anonymously - in a sense, I'm commenting anonymously by having a name rather than using a profile; not because I fear reprisal, but because it's simpler and easier for me to type a three letter name in a box than sign out of my main google account, log into one of my blogger accounts, choose which one to use, remember to always use the same one, etc. etc.

Ok, so that's my laziness and not a particularly good argument against the culling of anonymity. A better one would be that, in all honesty, the influx of anonymous fuglyites has been more of a trickle than a torrent. If you were being spammed to the eyeballs, raided or trolled (really trolled, by people who make a hobby out of such things) I would definitely agree with those who don't want anonymity - but since this is more a localised inter-blog beef, I doubt you'll get the volume of actual trolling that would necessitate such an action; while the loss of information and people willing to comment would be a real blow to the blog.

Besides, people never seem to realise how recognisable writing style can be. I've seen a fair few 'anonymous' commentators on this blog, from both sides of the argument, who I'm pretty sure I recognise from FHOTD. I say keep the option of anonymity - it does more good than harm, so far.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

The anons do not bother me. The good ones have relavent info to add and the idiots will be idiots whether they have to sign on or not.

Seaview-when you sign on...the username box actually requires you put in the email address you used to sign up with, not your SN. Hope that helps. If it is not that, I dunno.;)

CharlesCityCat said...

Duske:

Yes, everything went very well. We were able to get Memphis back from that A-Hole AC guy. She is such a sweet girl. We kept her for 3 weeks or so, but she is now living with my mom and dad. She is bred and trained as a hunting dog and we don't have a fenced yard for our dogs. We also live in an area with lots of deer and game, so there was an issue about her running off to hunt. I was afraid she would end up in a bad situation. My dad has a wonderful fenced yard and is a major dog lover, so she is with him now and doing very well. She is learning the joys of being a beloved pet. She will always have a home with me if it becomes necessary and we would do whatever we would need to at that time.

Duske Falling said...

CCC: Thank God for that! Prayers answered! I was really worried about you guys and her! *Hugs*

snowponies said...

Seaview
Are you putting your SN into the "username" box when you try to log in? or the email address you used to register on blogger? I kept having that very frustrating problem too and discovered that I had to use the email address. Hope that helps.

Wenchster
I've been reading and greatly enjoying your blog for about a month now. It seems to me that the Anon posts seem to be about 50% relevant, useful and worth reading (whether I agree with them or not) and 50% snipes, baiting, whining about your posts [being relevant to the stated purpose of your blog :)] and whining about whining. Personally speaking, I'm not terribly bothered by the latter 50%. However, I do sometimes find it confusing when someone responds to an anon w/o pasting the orig. post and slso when an anon responds to an anon. But I am someahat easily confused anyways and it's not earth shattering. It would be a shame to lose the input from relevant anons though.
However, it is possible to have multiple SN's if one feared some sort of retribution. Look at how those were used on FHothD on the NH/Nic post. LOL - Several of the dressage instructor's "friends" showed up all at once to defend her, but they all seemed to have a very similar style of writing, using many of the same phrases to describe her good qualities. Then a bunch of "ex-employees, students, neighbors etc. all seemed to show up at once, all with a similar writing style, accusations, use of phrases, etc..
Anyways, my vote is to keep the Anon (sorry Seaview :(

Dena said...

Wenchster
I liked the anonymous posting option for one reason.
Sarcasta.
Sometimes, it is hard to retract your position after so strongly defending it.
I liked that people had an option to be heard. Regardless, of prior loyalties.
I also like that someone can post without being flamed directly.
You know?
I don't do it. Because, I feel that I have a greater liability/responsibility to stand by what I say or post.
And if, I am in the mood to pick a fight? I want a person to know who is picking it.
If it were me? I would leave it. I think it serves more benefit, than harm.
But that is just my opinion.
I would probably rethink that if any anonymous person began making real threats.
I know I have been accused of making threats. Kind of confuses me.
I thought I was simply making it very clear what my legal response is to what has taken place.
Your blog. Your call...

SWA I am certain you will agree with me on this, but I feel the need to clarify.
I would NOT save them all. I refuse to save something to continue its suffering. Quality of life for me, includes, assessing pain management necessary. If that number is high with no resolution for it besides medications for pain management, I am not doing it.
A week of everything good that I can give and a peaceful end. Those are my rules.

Dena said...

Oh and Wenchster? If this is gang bashing here?
I would way rather be jumped in here than at fhotd.

CharlesCityCat said...

Duske:

Thanks, it was a difficult situation that worked out very well for all concerned.

Hunting dogs in my county can have a very difficult life, so far my husband and I have saved three, will continue to do what we can.

Hounddogsrule!!!

Dena said...

SWA Ugly horses? They are new to me.
Ugly translates into, conformationally incorrect.

Conformationally incorrect, can translate into, soundness issues.

And a lot of truly beatiful horses, end up in the pens, because someone, somewhere, wasn't willing to admit that, it was too much horse for them, and their abilities.
This includes professionals.

So, in changing from proving everyone wrong, to rescue and rehabilitation, we are now politically correct in saying, "Beauty Challenged".

Duske Falling said...

CCC: You go girl!!

Maddy said...

Trainingemmy: You are right about the libel, I am astounded that people have so little self control on FHOTD. While it may feel anonymous, everything you post is on the public domain and can do considerable harm to another person.

Fugly generally laughs off the threat of lawsuits, and she's right, most people won't go through with it primarily due to the expense. But sooner or later she's going to malign the wrong person with money to burn.

I just don't know how people can conscionably go from "she may have sold a horse directly to a kill buyer" to "she's probably committing insurance fraud".

(shakes head)

Anonymous said...

I anonymously vote to keep anonymous alive. Really, we are all pretty anon anyway but we do become attached to our screen names and filter our posts accordingly. Yes, it can be ugly but it can also be informative and refreshing. But who the heck am I to say? (bad pun intended).

You see, anonymously I can tell Dena that she needs to do something about her comma usage. I don't want to be mean at all, but if she took that badly I wouldn't want my "name" associated with my comment.

Dena, you seem very nice and generally well-spoken, but reading your posts is killing me! I don't want to offend you, I have comma issues myself, but jeeze you don't need to put them everywhere!! Just try to think about where you would put them when speaking naturally. That is usually a rule that works in most cases.

Dena said...

Dear Anon

I would prefer to dispense with using them altogether.
Commas frighten me.lol
But when I don't use them I get yelled at. Cyberetically speaking.
And when, I do, I get reprimanded.
I am sure you can understand my dilemma?
I can't win for lossing.
Now I just kind of use them as a hold that thought while I spell this word marker.
Sorry.:)
Please feel free to correct me K?

Dena said...

And now I am stutter typing. Losing.

I also am guilty of random and excessive punctuation and grammer abuse.
It used to drive them nuts at fhotd.
Think rabid dogs. So I started doing it on purpose.
Just to rile em up.
Even admitted it. OHWEE. That was fun.
I haven't done it on purpose since though.
Someone on fhotd accused someone else of abusing punctuation like a rented mule.
I really will work on that. Thanks.

I don't mind being corrected. Ever...
Just randomly abused because someone is bored or having a bad day or hates themselves. That I mind.

GoLightly said...

Having never been anonymousity
or animososity inclined, I cower before the blog master.

Ok, not never. But I do get there.
Sorry for all I've ever spewed. I will refrain from further baiting, and you're right SB.

Dena figured that shite disturbing side of me oh, aWhile ago.
word verf "conest"
maybe contest?
No contest!
To horses.

I'll never understand or practice dishonesty, just for fun, though.
How to keep the different anon's comments apart was confusing, is all. But I am a bit slow.

I blog about horses and training and farms and cities and people and dogs and life now, try to keep my comments to myself. Less misunderstanding. I gestate, gestalt, and then oops, sorry.
Did I Say That?
Blurting, I'm great at that.

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

LOL-I have to really watch myself with those commas. I can create a run on sentence that lasts the entire comment if I am not careful.

The picking on people for spelling and grammar over there is pretty funny and very strategic if they want to make fun of someone.

The biggest thing I notice is when people use "there" for the possessive "their". The other one that pops up a lot is to, too and two.

I know I am surprised when I see the writing my daughter does. She is a freshman in high school and has terrible writing skills. No proper punctuation or capitilization and she doesn't really seem to know the "rules" that apply. We work on it, but I remember teachers working on proper grammar at a much earlier age in school. Less phonics and more rules of useage. The texting and IM language abbreviations don't help either.:)

horspoor said...

I've got no problem with people posting anonymously. I may not choose to, but that doesn't mean that it's not a good idea. Some might not comment at all if not for the anonymous option. So, I think the option is important for some folks.

I do think it's pretty CS to go after someone anonymously in attack mode. If you're going to attack someone, at least have the stones to do it with a name.

As to Dena's comma issue...it is an ongoing challenge. lol We just put Christopher Walken's voice in. Try it, it will make you smile. lol

trainingemmy said...

Seaview: No harm done; but I do think we should hold ourselves to higher standards than I believe Cathy does. That means when we have information to share, we share what we know is provably true. Not only will this protect all of us from issues of libel, but it also will prove what is undoubtedly true here: the dialogue is more mature and information-based. Besides, I really would just love to confirm that unemployment rumor--it's the journalist in me! I can't help myself. :-)

So...if anyone can provide any facts about Cathy's employment situation, I will use my journalist's skills and do some sleuthing. Names and dates are the key.

Wenchster: I'm still a fan of the anon feature. It's a nice alternative, and so far, I honestly don't believe anyone has abused it. Sure, there have been a few ugly posts here and there, but, by and large, I think the quality of the interaction here stops most of the ugliness in its path.

It's hard to be a jerk when you can't really get a rise out of anyone and what you get instead are well-reasoned (for the most part) counter-arguments. I've noticed that many of the most rabid anons end up wandering away when folks here are calm and rational in return. This phenomenon actually amuses me greatly.

Dena said...

Now Horspoor I told you I was just kidding about Molly and Cat being related.

Wait a minute. A challenge? Whose going to the special olympics? Me or we?
God I said I would work on it...

I am not using commas. Anymore. I told you they scared me.

Dena said...

Who's. Apostrophes don't count as commas.
I'll just use periods. Lots of them. HA!

horspoor said...

Neither of us are going to the Special Olympics, nor the actual Olympics for that matter. lol

OH, Blueheron went to the Special Olympics a week or so ago. She says she was a volunteer.

Your use of commas has never bothered me. You will really sound like Christopher Walken if you switch to periods. lol

Dena said...

Sorry Horspoor. I was on the line scheduling an emergency visit with my therapist.
For my inappropriate punctuation anxiety and anonymous abuse issues.
Yeah right.

You know Horspoor I don't think I need stock in aluminum foil for this site.
But a couple of tickets in the Depends market might not be out of line.

I hate to break it to everyone but YOU ARE ALL anonymous to me.
ROFLMAO...

horspoor said...

That is the kicker isn't it. Most everyone, profile, screen name or not...they are anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Oh Dena, you're awesome for not taking it too personally! And I really hope it didn't come off as the fugly grammar police. No rabid dogs here! You guys are great - maybe I only feel we need anon because I've seen so many torn apart "over there" and I don't feel "safe" commenting anymore! I actually almost never post anyway.

horspoor - Re Christopher Walken's voice, you're right it made me smile!

This is a much happier place (most of the time, lol)

Anonymous said...

trainingemmy,
if you Google 'cathy atkinson' you will come across the site known as linkedin.com
-she is the fifth one on the list.

Duske Falling said...

Great, now I'm going to read every comment from now onin Christopher Walken's voice. HA HAHAHAHAHA! I love you guys! Wait, I mean to say... I... love you, guys. You are, so awesome... and amazing. It's... hard to not, like someone, of your caliber... and humor.

Dena said...

Umm...You just got that? Okay you can have my pass to the Big Time.
Duh:)

That is cool that BH went. I want to hear more about that.
But while I have you here I was wondering what your favorite barrel saddle is? Make and model.

Dena said...

Oh and HP when I quote you guys in real life?
And someone says where did you hear that?
I look kind of silly saying well Horspoor Blueheron Golightly CharlesCityCat Mel and Wenchster.
Got any ideas for that one?
In case you haven't noticed I gots bigger problems that punctuation.lol

Anonymous said...

"apparently" I now have issues with quotes *giggles*

Dena said...

And my real life friends are starting to take offense that I spend so much time with what to them are imaginary people.

trainingemmy said...

OK, you guys. You made me do this. You made me post this Saturday Night Live clip. I am not responsible for soda-spewing or other messes...

Family Reunion

Dena said...

Anon its okay. It really is. I meant it when I said I don't mind being corrected.
And I get the whole anon thing.
I just don't think I can use it and remain credible because of well everything.

horspoor said...

Barrel saddles? Well, I actually prefer my old Simco over the Dale Martin I have. The Dale Martin is really nice, (or was, pretty thrashed over the years). My friend Sabrina has an old Ryon I'd love to have. I don't think she's going to pass it on anytime soon.

The SNL clip, was hilarious. I'd never seen that. Thanks Trainingemmy.

bhm said...

I have no problems with an anonymous SN.

Red flags have been waved at the rescue story. I'm OK with that. As far as the concerns over the budget, we need to see a copy of the financial report before we can say anything has been misspent. A non-profit can, at any point, be required to make large structural investments. I'm hesitant about making accusations at this point.

Pipkin said...

Ok, I have read through the comments, responses and all that. I appreciate your responses. I do think this particular post comes off as quite FHOTD, but I get what you are saying about being concerned for rescues.

And I don't know who was complaining about the breeding post, and not having cojones to ask Cathy what about the VLC, but I went and did it anyway. Sheer brazenness, really.

trainingemmy said...

Off topic, but I had a great ride on my mare today. We worked on relaxation--of me and her. Well, mostly of me. :-)

I'm less sore in my shoulders and back (where I carry tension) than I normally am after riding, so I think it worked.

horspoor said...

Very cool Trainingemmy. I hold tension between my shoulders when I ride sometimes. That's just gotta feel lovely to the horse. lol

Pipkin, now I have to go over and look to see if anyone responded to your query. lol

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

trainingemmy...

This is the closest I found that INDICATES Mzzzzzz. Cathy may indeed be unemployed. At the very least she is seeking new employment.

http://www.jobster.com/at/person/show/3065112

(I wished making links was as easy as they are on my blog)

Anonymous said...

Oh, my...I followed the suggestion to check for Fugly on LinkedIn. My, but that's a shallow resume'. About a year per job and then she's out the door? Makes you wonder what's going on that she hops jobs so often. And how she hopes to provide a stable environment for her horses. Ah, jeez...sorry about the pun folks, it just slipped out.

(Taking advantage of begin able to post anonymously to avoid being beaten up by stray fuglyites)

Dena said...

Okay...Now, that, everyone has, had...a very good...laugh, at my...expense.

HA! That is funny for me. My lesson even came with a tutorial video.
Thank you Trainingemmie.
You have now made reading my poorly punctuated posts humorous instead of painful.
I can live with that.

horspoor said...

It wasn't ever meant to be mean Dena. My spelling and punctuation have a lot to be desired.

Dena said...

HP
I know that.

horspoor said...

What that my spelling and punctuation have a lot to be desired. lmao. Hmmm...you noticed, and I thought I was scootin by so well.

blueheron said...

Dena, maybe you can just say, "My internet friend says..." when you quote people?

And everyone, I'll just get out my purple pen and start correcting all of your posts. I've been itching to do some correcting, and you've just lain a veritable smorgasbord of errors in front of me...

(eyes spinning, she toddles off to find her pen, cackling wildly)

horspoor said...

Best becareful Blueheron. I'll start posting your blueheron-ims.

Dena said...

I wasn't going to say anything. But. As a former licensed employment counselor unless you are a environmental enigineer
No employer wants to see a resume like that.
It implies unreliability at best.
And troublemaker at worst.
I saw those links quite some time ago.
A resume like that does not read well.
It sound pompous. I ran everything and did everything. I was the most important person in the office.
And the picture? Really not appropriate.
Way too much showing for a professional resume.
And that is a professional speaking.
I used to work at a little place called, "Legal Secretaries Registry".
Before I moved on to mortgage banking.

blueheron said...

But it would be so much fun...
Can't I just correct one or two posts? Please?

There was a great one on another blog today, where someone was criticizing someone else for being "an idiot with no common since."

Talk about the pot needing to meet the kettle! lol. Oh well.

Dena said...

HP I saw that after I posted. That it could be interpreted two ways.
I was going to correct my meaning in that I knew it wasn't meant to be mean.
And then I thought it was funny.
Sorry:)

BrownEyed Cowgirls said...

Okay, MY BAD.

trainingemmy posted the same link that I did. If you look at the comments of the last post, she actually left two links.

I didn't catch it, but trainingemmy noted that the jobster link is from 2007. So old news.

Not sure if the newer posting is actually Cathy, but so much of the stuff is the same, it's hard to believe it's not her. Hmmmm....some very interesting differences between the two if it is her on both.

Dena said...

Amazing what you learn about a person isn't it?
Even about me.
That was why I was kind of a weiner about legal knowledge with her.
And my punctuation sucks because I used to have an assistant for many years that did all my hard copy.
Crazy huh?
Not a fabrication either.

horspoor said...

I knew what you meant. I was being intentionally thick. lol

Was going to say obtuse, but figured I'd get slammed for being an elitist. lol

blueheron said...

horspoor, dena--now don't you start to get all sophisticated on us. We can't keep up, and it isn't fair.
lol

Dena said...

Bluheron
Your purple pen would be better used drawing mustaches on profile pages.
Oh wait. They are almost all animals.
The anonymous profile pages?
Nope they are anonymous.
Hmmm. Let me think. On yourself?
No.
I am out of ideas.
We just wouldn't ever see you again if you take on a task of that magnitude.
I know selfish to the end aren't I?

horspoor said...

Georgia would look lovely with purple eyeliner. It might look lovely on you too Blueheron.

blueheron said...

Thanks for keeping my best interests at heart, Dena. I really, really would like to just fix EVERYTHING. But, I think you're correct...

(Puts pen down, backs away from computer screen)

It is a noble thing you've done, here, Dena. The Internet thanks you. :)

Dena said...

That's right HP you are an Elitist.
I forgot.
Actually I never got it to forget it.
Blueheron
I don't qualify as Elitist. I can't be anonymous.
And if I sophisticate you can't keep up?
God it sucks to be me.
I suppose I could stick to just abusing punctuation.

blueheron said...

Oh, now there's a thought, horspoor... Could start a new line of designer doggie eyewear. Hmm. Must go experiment. Talk to you all later...

Dena said...

She is going to go read more books to come up with a better way to educate us little heathens.

Blueheron
The only way to educate us is to not let us know we are being educated.
Works with resistant kids too.

There I saved you thousands of pages of reading.

Dena said...

I had one last thought to share and then it is Good Night from me to all of you.

Hey fugly. FWoTD inherited all of your talent.
Probably because us "Painfully Stupid" folk found fwotd to be an easy transition from fhotd.

We are appreciated here. Really nice people here too.
And fugly? I predict that your reader numbers will soon be making the change too.

They call us The Tin Foil Hat Brigade.
Gave us a very warm welcome.
Some even dared to suggest that most only read you because of us.

And because I know. I absolutely know you read here I just want to say one thing.
HA!

Anonymous said...

Hello all!
I would just like to say that I have read the fhotd blog for a while and had been an occasional poster. This seems to be a friendlier spot so do you mind if I come in and hang around for a while? I won't keep posting as anonymous.

I just finished reading the oddessy that was planning fail. I'm glad I was busy moving during that one!

Dena, honey, you have my utmost sympathy and respect. All I could see in my mind's eye was a starving pack of wolves pulling down prey and snarling over the carcass. To have your most horrible mistakes and falls from grace trotted out to strangers for their discriminating judgement is a nightmare to say the least.

To be there in the shit storm and have almost no one to stick up for you had to be almost unbearable. Those people didn't know you, they weren't there personally or have intimate knowledge of your lifestory, yet they were experts on it. Why? Because of some words in black type on a piece of white paper? That's it... Black and White. Oh, if everything were that simple.

One of my parents is and always will be a recovering addict. Not drugs, but alcohol, not that it really matters what the addiction is for, it's still an addiction and therefore beyond one's voluntary control.

As I read through all the posts, I found myself wanting very much to speak in your defense and this is months later. My family has been ravaged by the effects of drug and alcohol addiction and although it has never held me personally, I have still felt it's iron grasp.

You have much to be proud of. Your loved ones should be proud of you.
Keep your head held high, the best steel is forged in the hottest fires.

secondwindacres said...

I would NOT save them all. I refuse to save something to continue its suffering. A week of everything good that I can give and a peaceful end.
==============
Don't look now Dena...but that IS saving them all. :) :) A peaceful end is the kindest save of all. How many people want to save a horse only to end its suffering? That is the kind of save that shows that the horse is the most important thing. No agenda, no hope of making a buck, no hope of fame and glory for all the lives you kept from the DD. Just a pure and simple love of horses.

secondwindacres said...

Fugly generally laughs off the threat of lawsuits, and she's right, most people won't go through with it primarily due to the expense
==========
That's the thing that will save her. People get upset and I'm sure would love to name her in a lawsuit, but the expense and the hassle will deter many busy folks. After a night's sleep and getting back to the business of your life the motivation can wane also, since she's mostly annoying words on a screen.

But one day, one day...there will be somebody who will take the time to gather evidence, save those slanderous/libel words and sue her. The sad thing is that I think suing for internet crimes is still in its infancy and they are suits that are very hard to prove. Just because somebody came and threw rocks at my house and hassled my children some time after Cathy featured me on the internet proves nothing. And I don't know how much culpability she has for something one of her minions chooses to do or say. She seems to have insulated herself very well when it comes to the crap she starts that may spiral into something illegal. Proving that she should be held accountable for the things that happen after she puts words to a screen will be hard. The best we can hope for is that HER actual words are false and hurt someone's business or reputation and if that can be proved, there's your case.

secondwindacres said...

Dena, I haven't said this in a while, mostly because I think you know it. But, you know I'm in your corner and have been for a very long time. :) I can only speak for myself, but I know that you brought about a blessing in my life. Sometimes, it's easy to forget what is important. People. Compassion. Forgiveness. I'm glad that you reminded me that I'm a person who believes in second chances and believes in the human spirit. I was so sad about the division those feelings caused at FHOTD, but shaking my mind loose and reminding me that I'm my own person who needs to answer to the highest critics, my God and myself was indeed a great gift.

trainingemmy said...

SWA: Libel suits are incredibly hard to win, mostly because the lawsuit's viability rests entirely on the idea that harm was intended. That said, one might be able to prove malice aforethought based on Cathy's repeated use of FHoTD to "out" people she doesn't agree with or like. This historic pattern and her often thin documentation could be enough.

On the other hand, she's using opinion privilege as her cover. How often has she said "well it's just MY opinion," and I know she believes that will protect her. The thing is, opinion privilege only protects a writer if the opinion expressed is about something that's entirely subjective or if it's based on factual information. When she says something like "Trainer X is a moron," that's unkind, but OK under the law. It's her opinion, and it's not based on factual information. When she strays into "Trainer X abused xyz horse," then she's on shaky ground. And basing one's opinion on allegations from someone else without taking the time to make sure said allegations are true and provable can open a writer up to a libel suit.

She also treads the line on invasion of privacy pretty closely. Many of the people she "outs" are not public figures nor are they of interest in a public discussion UNTIL she goes after them. One could argue that these people have a right to reasonable privacy, meaning the way she goes after people could be invading their privacy.

I'm no legal expert. I'm merely a journalist who tries to know her media law well enough to stay out of trouble. I know that Cathy's blog often makes me cringe. She writes things that would get me fired or reprimanded where I work, and for me, that says it all.

trainingemmy said...

I'm looking into some of the information we've gathered about Cathy's job history. A few quick phone calls should help illuminate this story.

I am interested in finding out more, and I'm starting to get interested in writing a story about FHoTD. If anyone would be willing to talk to me one-on-one, please email me at journalist70@rocketmail.com.

I would like to write an investigative piece that really looks at Cathy from all angles. This will NOT be a piece that trashes her. It will be a piece that explores her fairly, so please know that I will check and double-check everything you tell me.

Anonymous said...

trainingemmy-
I am questioning the legality of the use of pictures that Cathy takes to feature on her site. I thought i understood her to say that it was perfectly legal to avoid copyright infrigement as long as it was used for education and no $$ were made off of it.
So now that she makes revenue off of the blog and has publically posted on the VLC blog that those dollars are also earmarked for his showing expenses, isn't that a violation of the law?
Isn't that kinda like stealing for profit?

bhm said...

Anonymous said...

Hello all!
I would just like to say that I have read the fhotd blog for a while and had been an occasional poster. This seems to be a friendlier spot so do you mind if I come in and hang around for a while? I won't keep posting as anonymous.
------------------
I look forward to hearing more from you. Your post was moving.

bhm said...

Anonymous said...
I am questioning the legality of the use of pictures that Cathy takes to feature on her site. I thought i understood her to say that it was perfectly legal to avoid copyright infrigement as long as it was used for education and no $$ were made off of it.
So now that she makes revenue off of the blog and has publically posted on the VLC blog that those dollars are also earmarked for his showing expenses, isn't that a violation of the law?
Isn't that kinda like stealing for profit?
---------------
The advertising money that Cathy is making would be prime candidate for a suit. The problem is that she's not making enough money to cover the cost of any legal action.

Another problem is publishing photos in the public domain. This limits image copyright

Dena said...

Oh My Anon. Thank You for sharing your experience with that.
My husband always said through all of that,"Show me one family in America that has not been touched by addiction".
I always said mistakes of that kind had NO value if they could not be shared.
The folks who talked about my children in such condescending to them terms?
Well ignorance can also be a disease.
When I was fighting using addiction I came up against a lot of that type.
Some were social workers imagine that.
I used to tell them "The good news is I am going to be clean someday. The bad news is you will probably still be stupid".
And if the Courts ever got it right all of the time? Well I just can not even imagine an ending for that sentence.
I look at it this way. We all live in glass houses.
I just don't understand why so many would choose to donate their stones to me?
I have a pretty good arm you know?

SWA
I TOLD YOU I WAS CERTAIN YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME.lol

It is a Beautiful Day. Because it is new.
And we can each do whatever we choose with it. Way Cool huh?

bhm said...

It would be hard to get Cathy on anything. If you look at the legal history of racist organizations, the law can do little to stop them. As long as the leader of the organization does not directly ask for a illegal act to be perpetrated, then the leader is not responsible for the members' actions.

Dena said...

Wenchster waiting for the new thread.
It is going to be a doozy.

For the Fugly class.
I continue to copy and print. There is enough to be sure.
But the whole establishes history of intent.
And there is such a wealth of ignorance of all things decent and right you all just make it so easy.
I can only say I am so glad that so many of you have chosen in your infinite wisdom not to breed yourselves.

bhm said...

secondwindacres said...

Dena, I haven't said this in a while, mostly because I think you know it. But, you know I'm in your corner and have been for a very long time. :)
--------------

Dena,
ditto

SWA,
Well spoken

Dena said...

BHM Statements like that are what would make it incredibly hard for me to prove damages.
I am always in awe of what I have gained through what was meant to be a very damaging and debilitating experience.
I am sure fugly has those same thoughts.
It gives me a giggle just to imagine her frustration.

Turn-n-burn82 said...

So I did some digging and I found 3 kelly baileys in MD.... http://www.google.com/search?q=Kelly+Bailey+maryland&hl=en&pb=r&ei=HfCrSaCsOJ6DtwfYotzXDw&sa=X&oi=rwp&ct=title

I'm contemplating calling and seeing if she has heard this story... it'll just take trial and error to find out which one it is IF it even is.... anyone wanna go on this quest with me?

The whole story sounded funny from the get go to me too. I really hate what FOHTD has turned into. It's liek it's My Pretty Pony Land over there where everything has a happy ending ... there is a quote from Horton Hears A Who that comes to mind when I think of that story and FHOTD .,.... "In my worl d everyone is a pony and we eat rainbows and poop butterflies!"

Dena said...

Oh and Anon. Because I can not resist because I do on occasion think I am that good.
I am so glad that a diet of snark did not staisfy.
I look forward to the reveal.

Dena said...

satisfy. I can spell.

Turn and Burn I would advise only that you be respectful in your inquiries.
Most people involved in a fugly expose when contacted correctly are only too willing to talk.
I still have contact with Diane from Dream Chaser Rescue Ranch.

CharlesCityCat said...

Duske:

Guess what I found curled up in the hay in one of my barns this morning?

Yep, another hound dog. Poor guy, no collar and very thin, and we have just had a snowstorm (well, for us it's a snowstorm.)

I think the word has gotten out.

CharlesCityCat said...

Pipkin:

Any response from Fugly on your comment on breeding the VLC. I don't like going over there even to read.

Dena said...

CCC
I am so glad the word has gotten out...
Because I have a very good idea how you do things.
Maybe you are the Harriet Tubman of the hound dog world.

Dena said...

And no. As of a few minute ago there was no response with regard to the VLC.

CharlesCityCat said...

Dena:

You would think in this county of all places there would be a true hound dog rescue but there isn't.

Hounds are just such sweet souls and there are way to many deadbeat hunters around.


I'm guessing that there won't be a response from Fugly. There really isn't much of a defense anymore is there?

I think the VLC is very cute myself but there seems to be too much info that says he should be a gelding.

Dena said...

CCC

Your County does too have a hound dog rescue.
You...
Silly rabbit.

Anonymous said...

bhm said...
The advertising money that Cathy is making would be prime candidate for a suit. The problem is that she's not making enough money to cover the cost of any legal action.
==================================
Wonder if it would make it a violation of bloggers TOS

Anonymous said...

On the Cheree story-
did you notice how quickly that one got replaced by an auction report?
as soon as BS was called and readers got to searching the internet for validity- poof!!!! a new post appears.

CharlesCityCat said...

Dena:

Shush, or after next hunting season, I will have a couple of hundred hounds sleeping in my bed.

Kevin and I have talked about trying to figure out a way to help these poor dogs, especially at the end of the season when so many get dumped. It is hearbreaking.

The stats from our AC here are very grim.

If anyone on here has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.

Anonymous said...

Check out the advertising rates for FHOTD-
http://www.geocities.com/resqtb/fhotdads.html
Not only does she make $$ per hit, blogger is free, then she gets this in also for revenue.
The funny thing is her stats she uses for her site traffic is from Jan 2008 AND unverifiable as far as reader base info.
Good to see she thinks her site is comparable to COTH, don't ya think?

Maddy said...

Given the cost and difficulty to prove intent, I wonder if class action suits would be more successful?

It would be interesting to hear what Kelly has to say, but I would also like to hear more from Kathi (the dressage school owner).

I have to agree I think the "outing" aspect of the website could show a history of intent.

Trainingemmy: I would be very interested in reading your final article, particularly since you plan to research all angles of the story.

It's weird, I initially started reading FHOTD over a year ago because as a re-rider I was looking for educational equine blogs. However, my continued interest has basically morphed into a combination of shock and facsination with the mob mentality of that blog.

I work in mental health and there were many times my heart bled for the individuals under attack. Yet at the same time I feel ashamed that I didn't have the "balls" to chastise people for being judgemental.

Ironically, I don't necessarily want to see fugly crash and burn, I don't dislike the women (I don't know her). However, I think she needs some sort of wake up call, perhaps something like Trainingemmy's article showing the outcomes of fugly articles.

Although I have to admit I am pessimistic anything short of a successful lawsuit will help.

Bexs said...

trainingemmy-
I am questioning the legality of the use of pictures that Cathy takes to feature on her site. I thought i understood her to say that it was perfectly legal to avoid copyright infrigement as long as it was used for education and no $$ were made off of it.
So now that she makes revenue off of the blog and has publically posted on the VLC blog that those dollars are also earmarked for his showing expenses, isn't that a violation of the law?
Isn't that kinda like stealing for profit?


Sadly I don't think it would be grounds for suit. Most of the pictures she does recover are from public ad sites like blogger, craigslist or equine.com. If you go through the terms of agreement it says in there that once the pictures or ads are placed on their website that any copyright infringement is void.
This is probably also why she posts links to farm or ranches websites saying go look at this and see this. Laws protect paid for domain users. When someone pays for their own domain they are buying the copyright protection along with it. Someone could pursue a lawsuit with her but when the information is published in a public forum it would be very hard to distinguish between defamation or free speech unless they can show that her words somehow ruined their business. In many cases several of the people that fugly posts about could sue her or even file a joint suit together because I'm sure their business was hurt, whether they deserved it or not.
In all honesty any of the ranches that I do feature stallions on in my blog could try to sue me. I don't think they will simply because I haven't said anything that would fall under defamation and I haven't posted anything that could cost them business.

^^^^ pardon for all the legal talk. My follow up profession....after rodeo clown was going to be civil attorney. Right now I'm content just being a mom with some kick ass law books from 1997.

Dena said...

I the interest of being above board.
I have over 200 hits per day on my blog.
I have one adsense advertisement.
I am a private blog.
I do not have a registered domain.
My earnings report as of yesterday showed that I had cleareda whopping .44.

I have been wondering how reputable rescue organizations would be willing to tarnish their efforts on a site that holds so much hate, threat, and profanity.
Not the best public image association to promote.

I have spoken to some of the UHC and asked if this is an appropriate direction for any of us on the whole.
The answer has been unanimously "NO".

Rescue is taking a interest in Cathy.
And not for the reasons she may have been hoping.

As much as she talks about her elevated experience in all things.
You would think she would have realized by now,"That There Is More Than One Way To Skin A Cat".
Bad pun intended.

Reputable Rescue would not wish to be associated with FHoTD.
If you can't recommend it to your sponsers Why would you allow it use of your name?
And pay to be hosted there?
NorCal at the very least needs to open their eyes.
Pretty much a no brainer.

Anonymous said...

Wow!!! How cool that she can attack Dena again on her comments but fail to answer the valid VLC ones.